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Reversed battery now car won't crank 

 

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 Post subject: Re: Reversed battery now car won't crank
Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 1:37 pm 
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Musky...

You're as dumb as a post mate...

Ok...

This is the last time I'm going to try...

A motor not running is a motor not running... They all sound the same... The all look the same... They all wind and wind and wind and wind... We've established that? We're full of warm fuzzy feelings on that point?

What does a motor need to run?

A motor works on explosions in the cylinders ok? The explosions push the pistons down and cause the crankshaft to turn... An explosion is a fire in a vessel in which a high pressure is obtained... Ideally the explosion needs the same things to happen as fire does?

Remember from school when you learnt about fire, it needs three things to burn...

Heat
Oxygen
Fuel

Take any one thing away and you have exactly what you show us in the videos...

What the videos don't tell us is which thing is missing... Because take any one thing away and it all sounds and looks the same, and until you check off that list we can't help you...

The heat is the spark... If the car is immobilised then the computer wont send the spark out to the coil... If the coil is broken it wont spark... If the leads are open circuit or high resistance it wont spark... If the plugs are cactus it wont spark real well... If the TFI is cooked it wont spark... If the PIP is damaged it wont spark...

The Oxygen comes in through the air intake system... If the air cleaner is blocked it wont be able to breath... That's about it for that system

Fuel is petrol... If the car is immobilised it wont supply fuel to the cylinders... If the fuel pump is burnt out it wont supply fuel... If the fuel pump relay is cooked it wont supply fuel... If the fuel filter is blocked it wont supply fuel... If the power to the injectors is gone (blown fuse) it wont supply fuel... If the TFI is damaged it wont supply fuel... If the PIP is damaged it wont supply fuel...

Every single one of these broken things will cause the engine to behave exactly the same... IT WONT START!

You have an engine that wont start, so how do I know which of the above things to tell you to change if you can't even tell me if it's:

Heat
Oxygen or
Fuel

related? The list of possible failed parts is as long as your arm and you telling us that the car doesn't start doesn't even begin to point us to which part could be broken?

If you just want to change things, then by all means do so... That list of possible parts which could be failed above would be a terrific starting point... It'll cost you a fortune... But that's the answer you're chasing... You want to know what's failed so change the following until it starts

Fuel Relay
Fuel Pump
Coil + Dizzy (in both PIP & TFI module) if EA-EB-ED-EL
Coilpack + crank angle sensor + syncro if EF-AU
Leads
Spark Plugs
Computer
Smartlock module (will need relearning)
Igntion barrel
All Fuses
All Relays
Injectors
Fuel Pump

One of those things has failed and if not one of those then the wiring between them may be damaged or chewed or similar...

You want the answer... That's all I can give you without knowing if it's at least fuel, spark or oxygen related...

Hopefully you learnt a little about internal combustion engines today... More specifically that just because it doesn't start doesn't mean it's always the same failed part... Ask your dad... He knows carbys? He'll know that a carby car will wind over but not fire if it doesn't have both spark and fuel... Could be a list half as long as the above on a carby car... He knows this... We know this... It's only you telling us it's always going to be same part that fails...

I'm out now... If you still don't believe that every single one of us is wrong for asking you for more information (look back we all are asking for more info)... Then, I simply can't explain it any dumber and with anymore reasoning... This is every single part which COULD have failed... All of which give the same obvious symptom of an engine that wont run... Without more info we have no idea which part it is... Knock yourself out how you want to use it this information... Look for the failed part... Or simply replace them all...

Just quietly though, the more we get into this, I think the most likely part you can replace will ensure the one-day-proper functioning of the car, is most likely going to be to replace the owner...

Goodluck on your venture...

And as always, anyone else got any better ideas?

Cheers,
Tim

 

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Last edited by TimmyA on Sun Aug 26, 2012 2:04 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Reversed battery now car won't crank
Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 1:41 pm 
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Location: Leeton
NSW, Australia

Most gas cars start on fuel from my limited gas experience, so we can surely rule gas out for the start up?

But, in no way is gas my area of expertise... I just like fuel and EFI...

EDIT

To add to that, flick the car to fuel... Lets at least get it working on fuel before cross to the gas computer and it's system...

 

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93 Red ED 5spd Manual Build Thread

Performance: Complete AUII VCT Wiring & Power Train, Pacey Headers, 2.5" Exhaust, Exedy Clutch, DBA Rotors
Visuals: FG XR Wheel, XR Front, 17's, BA 5 Spd Shifter, BA Ghia Window Switches, NL Cluster
Tunes: 8" Pioneer Sub, JBL Speakers, Clarion Double DIN Headunit

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 Post subject: Re: Reversed battery now car won't crank
Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 1:45 pm 
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Age: 27

Posts: 3705

Joined: 27th Sep 2006

Gallery: 20 images

Ride: ED Falcon

Power: 133 rwkw

Location: Leeton
NSW, Australia

musk wrote:
musk wrote:
TyLeR3397 wrote:
look, I'm an 18 year old kid, 1 year ago I looked at my old falcon and pointed to my rocker cover and asked my dad "Is dat duh plenum?" I've since learned a little bit about cars & engines through all the people on fordmods and my dad.

I can tell you that the reason Tim has asked you to check all those things because they could all be culprits. It's not like "oh, the engine won't start, it's just cranking over" "AH THAT'S EASY, THIS PART X NEEDS REPLACING, IT"S THE ONLY REASON WHY"

Have checked for Spark? - No spark, fuel doesn't burn.
Have checked for fuel pressure? - Fueling issues, an engine needs fuel to work
Have checked for fuel volume? - Same as above
Have checked the smartlock jewel to see if it's immobilised? As an immobiliser works, if it's on, your car won't start.
Have checked the interior light fuse? My guess is if there's a blown fuse somewhere, you won't be getting power or a spark.
Have checked all the fuses for that matter? ^
Have checked the main fuses/fusible links? ^
Have you ran diagnosis on the computer (tech docs under the the resource tab at the top)? This will probably help you hunt down the issue.

There's a lot more to electronic fuel injected cars compared to a carby engine car from the 70/80's.


well done mate that last bit of what you said is exactly what i been saying


but to help you understand more i dont have an interior light the globe blew out ages ago before i had the car so if its the interior light why is it doing it now and not back then? i dont have an imobiliser ea dont come with it or this car didnt either way no imobiliser, i have checked the fuses and the main fuses and they are all working fine ive said this many times now, i have to check the sparks today to see if it is sparking.



Musky, the interior light isn't the issue... It's the interior light fuse... Not only does it supply the light, but also supplies power to the immobilisation computer...

But no you have finally told us it's an EA we know that's not the issue... All this time and effort and so far the only extra info you've given us it's an EA...

Now we know that we can cross some things off the list...

The aim of the game is for you to tell us info we ask for and we cross the items off the list one by one for you... The end result is being left with an item we can then say "Change that!"

See how this "give a little, get a little" works?

Cheers,
Tim

 

_________________

93 Red ED 5spd Manual Build Thread

Performance: Complete AUII VCT Wiring & Power Train, Pacey Headers, 2.5" Exhaust, Exedy Clutch, DBA Rotors
Visuals: FG XR Wheel, XR Front, 17's, BA 5 Spd Shifter, BA Ghia Window Switches, NL Cluster
Tunes: 8" Pioneer Sub, JBL Speakers, Clarion Double DIN Headunit

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 Post subject: Re: Reversed battery now car won't crank
Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 2:11 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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Joined: 25th Aug 2012

Ride: ea falcon 89/90

Location: adelaide
SA, Australia

TimmyA wrote:
musk wrote:
musk wrote:
TyLeR3397 wrote:
look, I'm an 18 year old kid, 1 year ago I looked at my old falcon and pointed to my rocker cover and asked my dad "Is dat duh plenum?" I've since learned a little bit about cars & engines through all the people on fordmods and my dad.

I can tell you that the reason Tim has asked you to check all those things because they could all be culprits. It's not like "oh, the engine won't start, it's just cranking over" "AH THAT'S EASY, THIS PART X NEEDS REPLACING, IT"S THE ONLY REASON WHY"

Have checked for Spark? - No spark, fuel doesn't burn.
Have checked for fuel pressure? - Fueling issues, an engine needs fuel to work
Have checked for fuel volume? - Same as above
Have checked the smartlock jewel to see if it's immobilised? As an immobiliser works, if it's on, your car won't start.
Have checked the interior light fuse? My guess is if there's a blown fuse somewhere, you won't be getting power or a spark.
Have checked all the fuses for that matter? ^
Have checked the main fuses/fusible links? ^
Have you ran diagnosis on the computer (tech docs under the the resource tab at the top)? This will probably help you hunt down the issue.

There's a lot more to electronic fuel injected cars compared to a carby engine car from the 70/80's.


well done mate that last bit of what you said is exactly what i been saying


but to help you understand more i dont have an interior light the globe blew out ages ago before i had the car so if its the interior light why is it doing it now and not back then? i dont have an imobiliser ea dont come with it or this car didnt either way no imobiliser, i have checked the fuses and the main fuses and they are all working fine ive said this many times now, i have to check the sparks today to see if it is sparking.



Musky, the interior light isn't the issue... It's the interior light fuse... Not only does it supply the light, but also supplies power to the immobilisation computer...

But no you have finally told us it's an EA we know that's not the issue... All this time and effort and so far the only extra info you've given us it's an EA...

Now we know that we can cross some things off the list...

The aim of the game is for you to tell us info we ask for and we cross the items off the list one by one for you... The end result is being left with an item we can then say "Change that!"

See how this "give a little, get a little" works?

Cheers,
Tim


i said it was an ea from the start in the other forum where i posted up and you came in and told me to come on here to which i did and asked the same problem to which you told me so again and then just started being rude to me cuz i wouldnt just accept your answer. i ve said it before and il say it again i appreciate your help and answers but im the type of person though who doesnt just go by one person id like to get different peoples opinions especially if there the same as yours thats all i was trying to imply to you i wasnt trying to be rude or an a**hole i was basically trying to collect all the information thats all. thank you for your schooling on those 3 important elements it does help me a bit it just doesnt help when you say it sarcasticly i know i may have come off rude and arrogant ive read what i wrote and feel ashamed about it but i think the way you handle it was wrong calling me names and telling me this and that if i wanted to have that or do that il just stick to facebook. but that said this is not a rant nor a smart a*** or rude comeback of sorts its just a thank you and my reason of why i retorted the way i did once again i am sorry for how ive come across and i hope we can just move on.

also my car is a ford falcon ea s series straight 6 cylinder 3.9L engine on lpg gas i hope that helps too
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 Post subject: Re: Reversed battery now car won't crank
Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 3:05 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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Posts: 26

Joined: 25th Aug 2012

Ride: ea falcon 89/90

Location: adelaide
SA, Australia

uniacidz wrote:
Wow alot happens whilst a man sleeps

Musk, im not trying to be rude in anyway which is highly unusual cos i usually am quite rude, but im gonna give some advice and i think its best under the circumstances.

I think you should organise through your father and/or mates to get the vehicle towed to a auto electrician so he can diagnose the issue. Reason being is that your father is not experienced with the EFI cars and so gonna need some help here on this one.

I didnt know either it was on LPG gas, thats a different ball game as well.

If changed the switch to Fuel does not work, then there must be something stopping it from firing and so the car needs a doctor (mechanic) to look at why its sick.

Thats my advice and what i strongly recommend you to do. JUst make sure that whomever works on it does it for mates rates and if you do get a quote and diagnosis, feel free to ask us here about prices etc.

Cheers


yeah i got a mate coming over now to help me check where the problem may be if we cant find anything then im gonna have to look for an auto electrician this week. thanks for your help and support man and for the videos they helped me out a lot
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 Post subject: Re: Reversed battery now car won't crank
Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 5:08 pm 
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Location: Campbelltown
NSW, Australia

musk wrote:
SWC wrote:
musk wrote:
Benno The Viking wrote:
As for cranking and not starting, a fairly common thing is a blocked fuel filter. I'm not sure if there's any reason not to use Aerostart or similar on these engines (anyone?) so you could try putting a bit into the throttlebody and seeing if that will start it.

Oh yeah, is the fuel pump priming (whirring in the boot as soon as you turn the key to on, easy enough to hear from the drivers seat)?


nah mate the fuel pump isnt priming or whirring its doing pretty fine


If it is not priming or whirring, how is it doing fine?

Open the boot, peal back the carpet on the passenger side near the wheel arch and you will see a plate on the floor, under that is the fuel pump. While you are there, get someone to turn the ignition key to red and listen to see if you can hear the pump make a whirring noise. If it does this then the pump is fine, if it doesn't then the pump is not priming and the motor will get no fuel therfore resulting in no start. If it does not prime check you fuel pump relay, could be stuffed.

PS don't dump on TimmyA, he was only trying to help and he is one of the most helpful guys on here. Show a little respect and it will go a long way, don't and .......... well I will let you work that one out.


thanx i appreciate your help ok i know some of things ive said to timmy have been disrespectful and i know he was only trying to help me out i get it but the way he talked and responded to me was completely over the line and uncalled for you tell me im being disrespectful well go back and look and see who was acting disrespectful first and you will see why i said what i said.


Things you have said are disrespectful to a lot of people, especially Tim who is actually one of the nicest people on here, unlike me. You attacked Tim after he gave you good advice, he did not attack you,then you stick it to Troyman, a Moderator, and then to EVL098, not a good idea. I said show a little respect or...... but you didn't figure that one out.

Listen to what people are saying to you and cut the backchat. there is a lot of knowlege and experience on here, use it and be thankfull, don't abuse it or the people giving it.

The advice you have been given so far is good advice, follow it and you will get your car going, do the checks and if things don't work just come back on and let us know and we will suggest further things to check.

Keep going and you will get nothing and you won't be around long. Are you sure you are 27?

PS before you attack me after the advice I have just given you, think long and hard about it.
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 Post subject: Re: Reversed battery now car won't crank
Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 7:34 pm 
Fordmods Junkie
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lol ... im havin a good chuckle to meself :lol:





musk - ur gettin a lotta help here - listen to whats sed & you may learn something. i always find them helpful
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