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| SWC |
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Cam you don't see, carby on an EFI engine you can. If you know that you won't be able to put a crby on it, then why suggest it.
Lots of guys have had good results using the Moates Quarterhorse on the 5.0L. Great thing is that you can log live data and tune on the run. |
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| TROYMAN |
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I wouldn't worry 2 much about the emissions part, until you get caught. then you get a chance to rectify it before they clear it ..lol
I myself was done for emission equipment and noise check a few months ago and they passed mine with aftermarket heads (which in nsw need engineer for aftermarket heads) and 100 cell cats ...lol. but the chip is dependent on what brand chip and who does the tuning. if you understand how the ecu works tuning can be done fairly easy yourself, I run the moats quarterhorse using binery editor and other than having to tune it on the road its great... if your not confident doing the tuning your self then your options are to pay someone to tune it... or if you dont care for environment or authority go with the carbi, its your car, its your choice.. I think you will get more power and economy with efi over old school carbi.. |
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| OXFRD8 |
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i am looking to keep it efi, altho tuning side would be easier carb...
im not worried about emmisions... if i was worried about emissions i would leave my car standard i will look at j3's again, and have it tuned .. but i need to find the correct cam and stall for my needs. |
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| xafalcon |
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Remember that it's Mass Air EFI, so tuning isn't really necessary until fairly extensive modifications are made (eg injectors, fuel pressure, MAF). For example my AU XR8 has alloy heads and a reasonable cam (224 @ 050) but still runs on the factory tune. The engine makes an easy 340HP.
Yes, a tune will make it slightly better. But don't get hung up on "the need to tune", thats primarily a speed density EFI requirement where air flow into the engine is calculated rather than measured directly. Since mass air efi directly measures airflow, the ecu will still deliver the correct quantity of fuel. This holds true so long as air measurement and fuel delivery equipment matches what the ecu expects which I noted above. Calibrated MAF's even allow limited changes. eg. C&L 73mm MAF with 24lb sample tube lets you successfully run 24lb injectors, but can have mixed results In case you are wondering, I have a couple of Quarterhorse's for my more extensively modified vehicles. So my comments are based on my direct experiences
_________________ XA Faimont 351C, AU2 XR8 Manual 5.0, DA LTD 5.0, Mk1 Capri 5.0, 1995 Mustang 5.0, EF2 XR8 Manual, EF2 Fairmont Ghia 5.0, AU3 XR8 Auto, AU2 XR8 Auto, AU2 XR8 Manual Ute, TE Cortina 5.0 Manual, DU LTD 5.0 soon to be manual |
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| OXFRD8 |
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im not looking to get after market computers, if i do anything ill be giving it a j3 tune.
how big of a cam can you run without needing a tune... obviously engine vacuum levels change, causing it to run and hunt like a pile of poo. cheers. |
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| ranga83 |
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Thats what he is saying. The 8s dont work off vacuum they work off airflow
_________________ ef futura, pacemakers, 2.5inch catback, k&n panel filter and 3.45 lsd. extractors/cat, ticky head, custom cam grind, t5. now onto cosmetics. |
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| OXFRD8 |
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i get you now, so use to the 6's.
thanks fellas. |
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| xafalcon |
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OXFRD8 wrote: how big of a cam can you run without needing a tune... obviously engine vacuum levels change, causing it to run and hunt like a pile of poo. cheers. Duration and lobe separation are key. Wide lobe separation helps with drivablity and minimises idle surge. I would go with a cam/rocker combo that gives around 220 @ 050 intake, maybe another 4 degrees on the exhaust, with a 115 lobe separation. The E7 heads peak flow is below 500 thou, so no need to bother with more lift than that. A nice and cheap combo is to use the 1.7 ratio roller rockers on AU2-3 XR8's and regrind your existing cam. The base circle will be almost untouched meaning you shouldn't even need new pushrods. Just fit a crane cams 44308 valve spring kit. Next items to upgrade are TB to 65mm and MAF to 70mm - make sure it is compatible with ecu (don't use an AU MAF!!) Your current ecu will cope with these mods without a chip
_________________ XA Faimont 351C, AU2 XR8 Manual 5.0, DA LTD 5.0, Mk1 Capri 5.0, 1995 Mustang 5.0, EF2 XR8 Manual, EF2 Fairmont Ghia 5.0, AU3 XR8 Auto, AU2 XR8 Auto, AU2 XR8 Manual Ute, TE Cortina 5.0 Manual, DU LTD 5.0 soon to be manual |
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| ranga83 |
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I havent touched 8s yet but cant you use an au maf housing with e series sensor?
_________________ ef futura, pacemakers, 2.5inch catback, k&n panel filter and 3.45 lsd. extractors/cat, ticky head, custom cam grind, t5. now onto cosmetics. |
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| xcabbi |
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Best off to get a Maf with a known transfer function such as a Pro M or PMAS unit.
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| xafalcon |
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ranga83 wrote: I havent touched 8s yet but cant you use an au maf housing with e series sensor? If you have a wideband in the vehicle you will see that this bastard combo doesn't have a very close transfer function, as the AFR's are a way off where they should be. You're much better off getting a larger MAF that has a similar transfer function to the factory MAF, if you don't want to touch the ecu. It may cost a little bit more, but it is alot less than the repair bill for a detonated motor. If you are going to get a Quarterhorse, then there are many good MAF options. As noted above, make sure the transfer function is supplied with the MAF. A quarterhorse, binary editor, engine analyser (if needed), strategy file (if available for your ecu), wideband kit will easily set you back $800-1000. It is an exceptionally powerful set of tools which is absolutely worth the price if you need it, but if engine mods are kept within stock ecu limits, it is completely unnecessary.
_________________ XA Faimont 351C, AU2 XR8 Manual 5.0, DA LTD 5.0, Mk1 Capri 5.0, 1995 Mustang 5.0, EF2 XR8 Manual, EF2 Fairmont Ghia 5.0, AU3 XR8 Auto, AU2 XR8 Auto, AU2 XR8 Manual Ute, TE Cortina 5.0 Manual, DU LTD 5.0 soon to be manual |
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| xcabbi |
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You could generate a transfer function for the bastard Maf assuming that your injector slopes are spot on. Just modify the maf points until your lambda gauge values match your Lambse values (assuming you aren't running an ethanol blended fuel, e10 and E85 require a bit of scaling) in your tuning tables.
The more experienced quarterhorse guys can generate a pretty much perfect tune from scratch by forcing the ECU to run in closed loop or open loop to determine data like injector slopes and the like. One text I highly recommend to get is "The Ultimate Ford Efi Tuning Guide" by Losato Racing. http://www.lasotaracing.com/MOBETuningGuide1.html The link above is the one for those who are using a quarterhorse with binary editor and EEC analyzer. They have different books depending on what you tune your car with (sct, hp tuners,.... Ect). The s**t thing is they only sell download only copies outside of the US and Canada. |
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| XR9UTE |
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It could be that it has a problem if it's extremely sluggish down low? 5.0's a re not known for being sluggish down low unless there is a problem so for a start I'd check your base timing...it wouldn't be the first time I've seen one timed wrong.
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