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Ed 5ltr not starting 

 

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 Post subject: Ed 5ltr not starting
Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:06 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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Age: 27

Posts: 29

Joined: 30th Mar 2014

Ride: Ed xr8

Location: Geelong
VIC, Australia

Howdy I'm trying to get some help identifying why my car won't run I have a ed I swapped to v8 a few years back

I was out driving pulled up to the lights and when I went to go it was sluggish went about 5 metres spluttered back fired surged the whole lot got it a bit further up the road and it died and wouldn't fire up again I got a mate to tow me home

I had a play with it It would turn over n fire but not run then if I tapped the starter with a bit of bar it would fire up and run I did this a few times to move it round the yard some times when I started It would run like it was only on 5 cylinders or what not. Or I'd start it an it would run fine rev good with no signs of a problem and other times it would fire up idle good rev good but then just stall I gave up on it for a while but lately I felt sorry for the old girl and wanna get it going again

But now it won't start up even if I tap the starter it just turns fires like its gonna go but doesn't I don't know what to make of it if anyone has any info help or guesses on what might be wrong I'm all ears thanks
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 Post subject: Re: Ed 5ltr not starting
Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 1:21 pm 
Fordmods Newbie
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Age: 45

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Joined: 29th Mar 2010

Ride: Ford ED Sprint

Location: Cairns
QLD, Australia

make sure none of the piping between the MAF sensor and the intake manifold has come loose. If that donut shaped piping pops off it will carry on like that.
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 Post subject: Re: Ed 5ltr not starting
Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 2:06 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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Age: 27

Posts: 29

Joined: 30th Mar 2014

Ride: Ed xr8

Location: Geelong
VIC, Australia

Cheers for the reply I made this post a fair while ago and down a heap of stuff since then
Plugs/leads coil TFI module dizzy cap rotor fuel pump/filter air filter nothing made a change except it started with the serpentine belt off and then wouldn't when I put it back on

Iv narrowed the problem down to something to do with the alternator wiring or something it won't start and run with the 2 pin plug on the side connected if I take it out it the car runs I got no idea why Iv put a second hand alternator on and does the same thing
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 Post subject: Re: Ed 5ltr not starting
Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 6:47 pm 
Stock as a Rock
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Age: 64

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Joined: 4th Feb 2016

Location: australia
VIC, Australia

I did not think the alternator was your problem, even though it can cause problems with leaking ac. I said in my last post did you move the dizy when you changed the module, if you have the timing to far retarded, when the alternator loads up and charges max after cranking, it might cut the engine out or back fire. Connect a volt meter to the battery when it is running then plug the connector in to the alternator and watch what the volt meter does. I know this sounds weird have you got another known good battery to try and check all your grounds.
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 Post subject: Re: Ed 5ltr not starting
Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 8:30 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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Age: 27

Posts: 29

Joined: 30th Mar 2014

Ride: Ed xr8

Location: Geelong
VIC, Australia

Gday rod I did turn the dizzy when I did the TFI I made a mark with razor blade looking directly centre and was still lined up after I tightened the bolt down but I'm not convinced it's back perfectly
As it turns a few times before it starts it used to fire first flick of the key

I havnt got another battery and I'm actually debating weather I go get a decent one the one I have is a battery word special and maybe theres something wrong with it

What did you mean by check all the grounds with another battery

iv got it to idle now with alt connected but it only idles nicely with electrical loads on lights a/c fan flat out and thermos on if I turn them off it just goes back to running rough reading zero on the tacho if i turn them all on again it idles up and sits nicely but it won't rev if I try it just goes to running rough or it might back fire

I'm going out now to try what you said about plugging in alt plug while its running
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 Post subject: Re: Ed 5ltr not starting
Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 10:10 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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Age: 27

Posts: 29

Joined: 30th Mar 2014

Ride: Ed xr8

Location: Geelong
VIC, Australia

So this is what I got at the battery

11.81 ignition off

11.50 ignition on

11.3 engine running and plug disconnected from alternator

12.4-12.9 when I put the plug in but then started running rough within a few seconds but volts stayed around the same

12.3-12.4 when I turn electrics on and it idles nicely about 800 or less

12.3-12.9 at back of alt

Turn engine and electrics off 12.04 at battery

15.3 when I take the cable off the back of the alt and start the engine

The run a new charging cable today the old one was getting hot when running and was nearly a volt different between the alt and battery I guessed it can't hurt and was worth a shot I used 4 gauge wire and put the battery sense wire directly on the terminal
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 Post subject: Re: Ed 5ltr not starting
Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 11:16 pm 
Stock as a Rock
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Age: 64

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Joined: 4th Feb 2016

Location: australia
VIC, Australia

The open circuit voltage of a good battery would be around 12.7 volts, to have 11.8 with ignition off is under charged or faulty, or something drawing power, I meant the reg connector not the main cable that is why the voltage was high never run the engine with the main alt cable off.
Connect the volt meter to the battery and get someone to crank it over and look and see what the voltage drops to.

When I said grounds your earths check them all, it would be good if you can use another battery, that open circuit voltage is low and when you crank the engine I think it would drop below 8 volts. Does it spark when you connect and disconnect the battery cable.

One more thing because you would not know what the charging current is when it runs rough with the reg connected, does the alternator sound like it is working hard or humming.
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 Post subject: Re: Ed 5ltr not starting
Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 1:00 am 
Oompa Loompa
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Age: 27

Posts: 29

Joined: 30th Mar 2014

Ride: Ed xr8

Location: Geelong
VIC, Australia

The battery is probably getting flat now it's been a few weeks since I put it on the charge and Iv been starting it with the alternator disconnected so it hasn't been getting a decent charge at all

I didn't know that about checking voltage at regulator and not cable I'll have a look tommorow

I had multimeter connected when I started it earlier and volts did drop to 8 when starting

I removed and cleaned all the earth I know of body/engine/ECU/and one in the boot the voltage is same between the body/engine and battery

It doesn't spark when I put the battery cables on but i try not to let it spark

i think it does hum but I need to have a better listen to it when it runs rough

It gets pretty hot though i put my hand on it an was surprised how hot it was
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 Post subject: Re: Ed 5ltr not starting
Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:31 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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Age: 27

Posts: 29

Joined: 30th Mar 2014

Ride: Ed xr8

Location: Geelong
VIC, Australia

put a brand new century battery in today didnt help did same rough running stuff had 12.7 v when I put it in
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 Post subject: Re: Ed 5ltr not starting
Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 2:13 pm 
Stock as a Rock
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Age: 64

Posts: 146

Joined: 4th Feb 2016

Location: australia
VIC, Australia

This problem of yours has got me intrigued, I wouldn't mind looking at it my self, so what you are saying with the voltage reg disconnected the motor runs fine.
if I was looking at that problem myself I would connect a volt meter to the power relay, fuel pump relay, an injector, ignition coil, mass air flow sensor, just to see what is happening when the voltage goes over 12.7 volts ect.
Have you had a look around the ecu and made sure the case ground was intact.
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 Post subject: Re: Ed 5ltr not starting
Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 11:06 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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Age: 27

Posts: 29

Joined: 30th Mar 2014

Ride: Ed xr8

Location: Geelong
VIC, Australia

pretty much yeah with plug out it runs

I tried the old alternator I had on when it first broke down just to see what happens i double checked everything while I was at it redone the battery terminals and what nots

Started it and she fired up all good no electricals on idling away showing 14.3or.4v on multimeter I though ah yeah somethings going right for once had it there idling gave it a couple little revs had it going for probably 3 minutes then it did like a little shudder or a miss an revs dropped only for a split second an I just new what was coming next maybe 30 seconds later it just died like someone switch off the key

Then it went back to firing up an dying straight away so just to make sure I went dropped the serpentine belt and it started and run put the belt on It wouldn't start took the plug out alt it run put it the plug in while it was running and it run rough again (I had multimeter hooked up still and there was no change in volts when I put plug in) And the when I turn electrical loads on thermos/headlights/blower fan it comes good and revs up and idles nicely but showed between 12.3/12.6 v at battery at around 800rpm

If I have the electrics on it idles away good if I try and rev it it shudders an stuff and will stay running bad but it will come good if I switch thermos off then back on or pull high beams stalk And also it might rev if I pull high beams on first before I touch the pedal

So I'm pretty sure I should just get a new alternator it obviously not good even when Iv got electric loads on it should be putting out more juice then 12.4v at like 800rpm Im not keen on the prices Iv seen about $300-$400 for an 100/110amp ef-el alternator or $180-$350 for an a 95 amp eb-ed alternator I think eb-ed alt be good enuff I'm only really running thermo fans and not much else

is case ground the earth lead that comes out the loom plug on ECU or something else
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 Post subject: Re: Ed 5ltr not starting
Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 1:28 pm 
Stock as a Rock
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Age: 64

Posts: 146

Joined: 4th Feb 2016

Location: australia
VIC, Australia

Connect up your multimeter pos lead to the alternator output terminal that goes to your battery, and the ground to battery neg have the meter on AC start the engine and try to bring the rev's up and see what the meter is showing, there should not be more than .3 of a volt or 300 mv on the scale.
Under normal circumstances an alternator could be pushing out 60 amps and 15 volts and would make no difference how the engine ran, the only thing I have encountered is leaking diodes and ac getting into the system and upsetting the electronics.
I can send you some information on how to check for codes, these systems were in between obd1 and obd 2 where as now every thing is obd2, after 1996 a lot cars use a 16 pin diagnostic connector, there could be some information stored in your pcm.
Do them other tests I said at your fuel pump relay power relay injector and so on so you can see what is being effected when the voltage rises.
If this was in my shop the first thing I would do is try to get some information from the pcm, then remove the kick panel to get access the pcm so I could perform voltage drop tests on the engine while it was running. I wouldn't buy an alternator just yet. I am in bacchus marsh where in Geelong are you.
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 Post subject: Re: Ed 5ltr not starting
Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 2:46 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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Age: 27

Posts: 29

Joined: 30th Mar 2014

Ride: Ed xr8

Location: Geelong
VIC, Australia

So with the meter on ac and connected how you said it showed 00.1-00.0v with it running

Iv found how to run the codes with the analog multimeter I just went an done it then and got codes 67 and 11
67 says a/c failure wich makes sense cause it's not on the car and 11 is system pass but I had the battery disconnected and it might of wiped out others if they were any I have had other codes in the past like TPS voltage low but that was after i played with it now it's at .98v

I'm in north Geelong bout 100m from the ford factory funny enuf

How would you test ECU/fuel pump relay would you remove header tank and plug the hose underneath or
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 Post subject: Re: Ed 5ltr not starting
Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 4:20 pm 
Stock as a Rock
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Age: 64

Posts: 146

Joined: 4th Feb 2016

Location: australia
VIC, Australia

I am going to Portland tomorrow I can call past and have a look if you like, have the pcm out of the kick panel set up so I can do some voltage drop tests 0422530540.
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 Post subject: Re: Ed 5ltr not starting
Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 6:05 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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Age: 27

Posts: 29

Joined: 30th Mar 2014

Ride: Ed xr8

Location: Geelong
VIC, Australia

Yeah can do mate I'll text ya soon
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