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EL Fairmont Offroader [& BA wagon offroader concept] 

 

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 Post subject: Re: EL Fairmont Offroader [& BA wagon offroader concept]
Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 8:34 pm 
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Thanks for all that information RD. I am looking for a family tourer as an alternative to an old landcruiser, so I am can live with a little reduction in comfort as long as it still drives OK. it just seems that for 95% of the driving we would do, that I dont really need 4 wheel drive, and my wagon is already set up with things like a cargo barrier and good tow kit.

I think I will use the King Springs as I do not believe they will create to many problems, but I will consider making some spacers and using new standard springs if they prove to be to harsh.

I will definitelly try 205/75 tyres if I can find them. This witht he raised springs would give me the sort of GC I need for dirt road touring. The back might have uprated leaves. It does seem to sit high at the back and handles towing duties really well, hardly dropping.

I will try and get some pictures up as I progress with this.
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 Post subject: Re: EL Fairmont Offroader [& BA wagon offroader concept]
Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 8:55 pm 
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griffdog wrote:
Thanks for all that information RD. I am looking for a family tourer as an alternative to an old landcruiser, so I am can live with a little reduction in comfort as long as it still drives OK. it just seems that for 95% of the driving we would do, that I dont really need 4 wheel drive, and my wagon is already set up with things like a cargo barrier and good tow kit.

Almost whatever you do the falcon will be heaps more comfortable than an old landcruiser!

Quote:
I think I will use the King Springs as I do not believe they will create to many problems, but I will consider making some spacers and using new standard springs if they prove to be to harsh.

I know some cars have problems with coils sagging but i'm not aware of the falcon fronts having that problem. That would be the only reason i reckon you would consider replacing them, and in that case i would just get another secondhand pair. Springs don't lose rate, they stay the same stiffness, just some can lose a bit of height. Springs very very rarely break.

If you are loading the car up with heaps of people and gear you might be happy with the raised h/d coils.

Quote:
I will definitelly try 205/75 tyres if I can find them. This witht he raised springs would give me the sort of GC I need for dirt road touring.

I'm with you, it's so much nicer to not have to worry about driving over large stones or tree branches or all the other things that can be lying on the road, if not undulations in the road itself, and if you end up on the verge you are much less likely to have a problem.

205/75R15 tyres are a common fitment to early model suzuki vitara's, i got mine off a wrecked one. You could probably just go out and get some new tyres of this size fitted, or you might like to source some secondhand ones to see what it's like.

A 215 would be a slightly better width for a 7" rim. You could consider two options in that size, a 215/70, but that is uncommon, and i can't say whether they would fit, they might be fine but you would have to try. The other one is the 215/75, which i mentioned before and is unlikely to fit. There is a size 225/70R15, common on some daihatsu feroza's, but once again you'd have to try and see, and your chance would be very low with that size, it's not much smaller than the one's on my car.

Quote:
The back might have uprated leaves. It does seem to sit high at the back and handles towing duties really well, hardly dropping.

Sounds good. Sounds like you don't need any air shocks.

Quote:
I will try and get some pictures up as I progress with this.

If you start a garage thread you're welcome to let me know.

 

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 Post subject: Re: EL Fairmont Offroader [& BA wagon offroader concept]
Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 9:12 pm 
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thepistonhead wrote:
Haha! That would be a sight.

Got a picture?

I wouldn't have thought to take a picture of it now, but at your request i'll see what i can do.

 

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 Post subject: Re: EL Fairmont Offroader [& BA wagon offroader concept]
Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 10:25 pm 
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Maybe the front springs are slightly lowered. It just seems to sit low.

I travelled around Australia years ago in an old Peugeot 504 with higher rear springs and light truck tyres. it was sensational on outback roads and would easily cruise along at 100kph on even the roughest roads. It seemed to have just the right amount of ground clearance and never really had an issue with grounding anything one I removed the middle muffler. If I could get the falcon to be anywhere near as capable I would be happy.

It will be a camping car so generally will have gear, wife and three kids pulling a jayco camper.
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 Post subject: Re: EL Fairmont Offroader [& BA wagon offroader concept]
Posted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 10:24 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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thepistonhead wrote:
Haha! That would be a sight.

Got a picture?

Here goes . . .

The front is being held up by the large tyre on the drivers side, and the rear is pulled down a tad by the small tyre on the front. Looks a bit like its launching.

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 Post subject: Re: EL Fairmont Offroader [& BA wagon offroader concept]
Posted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 10:53 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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A while ago i picked up a secondhand 205/70R15, pretty sure it's originally off a volkswagon transporter 4x4 synchro. It's the largest tyre that will fit in the spare wheel well in the boot of the falcon sedan. I don't know about the wagon. The tyre is heavier duty than an ordinary tyre and has a more aggressive tread pattern. I think it's a nice fitment to a 7" rim. This size is also a common fitment to suzuki sierra's.

It is bigger than a std falcon tyre in so much as a std falcon fitment is a 205/65R15, so it has 5% more sidewall as a proportion of it's width. It's not a massive difference but noticeable. I would only generally recommend it's use as a spare, if you want bigger tyres go for a 205/75R15 or larger.

It's the one on the right, on the left is a std size and almost bald tyre (215/60R15).

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Last edited by relaxed_diplomacy on Thu Mar 25, 2010 11:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: EL Fairmont Offroader [& BA wagon offroader concept]
Posted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 11:06 pm 
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i read the thread title and just wanted to let you know what there is already a ba wagon offroader concept and ford calls it a Territory,

 

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 Post subject: Re: EL Fairmont Offroader [& BA wagon offroader concept]
Posted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 11:23 pm 
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griffdog wrote:
Maybe the front springs are slightly lowered. It just seems to sit low.

My EBII sedan was low at the front, but someone had fitted lowered h/d coils, perhaps in attempt to level the car after fitting an lpg tank. I whipped them out asap.

Quote:
I travelled around Australia years ago in an old Peugeot 504 with higher rear springs and light truck tyres. it was sensational on outback roads and would easily cruise along at 100kph on even the roughest roads. It seemed to have just the right amount of ground clearance and never really had an issue with grounding anything one I removed the middle muffler. If I could get the falcon to be anywhere near as capable I would be happy.

It will be a camping car so generally will have gear, wife and three kids pulling a jayco camper.

The falcon should have as much or more suspension travel, and can be made to have as much or more ground clearance. But did the peugeot have IRS? I don't know how well the peugeot would rate for chassis stiffness.

My sedan is definitely brilliant on dirt roads except for having a solid rear axle and original 274k rear shocks (shocking i know!) which allow the rear to get unsettled and run wide if i push it around a corner. I like my rear sava tyres except i don't think they grip well in the sideways direction, they let go too early. But i would need to fit good rear shocks to know for sure, with two factors operating it's hard to know just how much each one is affecting things.

With heavier high-profile tyres and raised suspension i recommend fitting firm shocks unless you want ultra comfort at the expense of handling. My impression is one might consider pedders, bilstein or koni sports shocks, but others may also offer particularly good body and wheel control. Stiffer rebound damping keeps the body under control, and stiffer compression damping keeps the heavier tyres from bouncing off the road when they hit bumps. Although, the higher sidewalls offer more bump absorption so it's not a big issue. Another factor is whether you go passenger or light truck construction, i recommend passenger, they ride so much better and are lighter and plenty strong enough for a falcon offroader. Absorbing bumps better means you don't need more or as much more compression damping as you might with a light truck tyre.

 

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 Post subject: Re: EL Fairmont Offroader [& BA wagon offroader concept]
Posted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 11:31 pm 
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bradley4567 wrote:
i read the thread title and just wanted to let you know what there is already a ba wagon offroader concept and ford calls it a Territory,

I recommend you read through the thread and you will find out the good reasons why i am not interested in a territory. I'm not saying they are a bad car, if that's the configuration people want then . . . well, give it to them i guess, apart from environmental concerns. But it's heavy, slow, high fuel consumption, bad aerodynamics, not much better offroad, expensive, etc. In my opinion the awd version should only suit people that want high interior space and drive to the snow regularly or have a slushy driveway. As for the rwd, why wouldn't you get a people mover?

 

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 Post subject: Re: EL Fairmont Offroader [& BA wagon offroader concept]
Posted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 11:36 pm 
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relaxed_diplomacy wrote:
bradley4567 wrote:
i read the thread title and just wanted to let you know what there is already a ba wagon offroader concept and ford calls it a Territory,

I recommend you read through the thread and you will find out the good reasons why i am not interested in a territory. I'm not saying they are a bad car, if that's the configuration people want then . . . well, give it to them i guess, apart from environmental concerns. But it's heavy, slow, bad aerodynamics, not much better offroad, expensive, etc. In my opinion they should only suit people that want high interior space and drive to the snow regularly.


territorys are far from slow,
you do realise they share the same floorpan as a ba, if you are serious about a ba wagon you could possibly utilise territory parts on it,

even a awd ba wagon

 

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 Post subject: Re: EL Fairmont Offroader [& BA wagon offroader concept]
Posted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 11:40 pm 
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bradley4567 wrote:
you do realise they share the same floorpan as a ba, if you are serious about a ba wagon you could possibly utilise territory parts on it,
even a awd ba wagon

Yep, good thought, we've been discussing that, if you have any further ideas, shoot away.

 

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 Post subject: Re: EL Fairmont Offroader [& BA wagon offroader concept]
Posted: Fri Mar 26, 2010 6:29 am 
Oompa Loompa
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i dont think id want a territory. id get sick of replacing front balljoints and rear diff bushes on an annual basis. at least this el is something different that turns heads and is unique. isnt that what modifying cars is all about?
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 Post subject: Re: EL Fairmont Offroader [& BA wagon offroader concept]
Posted: Fri Mar 26, 2010 8:59 pm 
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true true, but an awd el would be something to see

 

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 Post subject: Re: EL Fairmont Offroader [& BA wagon offroader concept]
Posted: Sat Mar 27, 2010 9:47 pm 
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so true. would be cool like that turbo all wheel drive xf falcon in the late 80s early 90s
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 Post subject: Re: EL Fairmont Offroader [& BA wagon offroader concept]
Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 11:53 pm 
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any more progress?
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