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| XR8220 |
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I need complete engine specs for this car if anyone has them.
I want to replace the stock cam with a performance one that doesnt destroy the auto box or stock diff. Happy to sacrifice top-end speed for bottom-end torque (cam lumpiness ok) but must stay reasonably driveable as its a daily drive. I do drive hard tho so I need it to be reasonably strong. Any ideas? (has to come from a local supplier as Im fixing the engine this week) Is there a reason why the cam would drop a lobe? Oil used is Fuchs 10-30, replaced every 5-7.5k. Engine has just over 100k on the clock. Is there a parts number workshop manual in existence still? (perhaps downloadable online?) |
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| TROYMAN |
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the bottom end, as in block, pistons,rods and crank are all std , same as 175/185/200kw au 5.0l.
cam is different, its a crowcam. 621339..duration@50=203/209..lift .455. lobe cl 118. heads are std gt40p modified by yellaterra. slightly larger valves, a double valve spring with 1.7 roller rockers, the intake ports are crudely port matched to the intake manifold.. what else do you need to know?. its pretty rare for a roller cam to kill a cam lobe, i say there would be a lifter roller issue causing it to wear,, |
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| XR8220 |
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Thanks for the info Troy. much appreciated
Info is really hard to come by on these machines. Age isnt kind. But I want to keep the wheels...its pretty rare and looks excellent for its age. I must admit that its somewhat disappointing this supposedly rock-solid hand-built engine dropped either a lifter(twice) or wrecked its cam. I know I drive it hard...but this is like..wtf? There was no wear on any of the original lifters when I took them out. Put new lifters in just in case, oiled them before installation, and now still have an exhaust valve that has a 2mm gap between rocker and rod. All the lifters rattled like crazy despite torquing them to specs (30nm). Was going to re-torque them to 40nm when I discovered the loose exhaust valve. Hence why I decided to go with a new cam and then match it with new lifters. Couple of questions I want to move harder without wrecking things in the process. Opinion has the max at about 540 lift but it still has to be street driveable so this might be a bit extreme. Do you have a suggestion? Do you know about any sort of parts number workshop manual in existence? I have the standard one but its sometimes worse than useless. In days gone by....there used to be 2 manuals....a general "Gregorys" one and then a detailed one usually only used by specialist workshops. Its this specialised one Im looking for. Thanks for your help |
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| xafalcon |
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XR8220 wrote: There was no wear on any of the original lifters when I took them out. Put new lifters in just in case, oiled them before installation, and now still have an exhaust valve that has a 2mm gap between rocker and rod. All the lifters rattled like crazy despite torquing them to specs (30nm). Was going to re-torque them to 40nm when I discovered the loose exhaust valve. Hence why I decided to go with a new cam and then match it with new lifters. Check the valve spring on that exhaust valve. Probably broken and that is giving you the lash on the rocker. The 220's suffered from this defect. If you continue driving it, the valve spring winds up on itself, increasing lash further, until the locks pop out and the valve drops into the cylinder. Then bang and no more go.......
_________________ XA Faimont 351C, AU2 XR8 Manual 5.0, DA LTD 5.0, Mk1 Capri 5.0, 1995 Mustang 5.0, EF2 XR8 Manual, EF2 Fairmont Ghia 5.0, AU3 XR8 Auto, AU2 XR8 Auto, AU2 XR8 Manual Ute, TE Cortina 5.0 Manual, DU LTD 5.0 soon to be manual |
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| XR8220 |
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Hi Xa
Thanks for your answer. I ended up taking it to a mechanic who discovered that the motor builder didnt lubricate/paste one of the rocker arms properly when it was built, and the cup failed. In mechanics, its never safe to assume things are as they should be.... Never thought to check them...probably why as a mechanic...I would make a good undertaker. Decided not to do the cam, probably a waste of money as the gain would be either negligible or end up shortening the life of the engine too much.... Might have to just resign myself to buying one of the new Fords, they are supposed to be something else in the performance stakes. |
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| TROYMAN |
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dont under estimate the old windsor engines and dont be worried about putting a cam and shortening its life, they are a really stong reliable engine. imo they can take more of a beating than the newer engines can.
and yes the newer fords are faster and make better power out of the box, but the reliabilly and build quality just isnt there anymore. |
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| xafalcon |
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XR8220 wrote: Hi Xa Thanks for your answer. I ended up taking it to a mechanic who discovered that the motor builder didnt lubricate/paste one of the rocker arms properly when it was built, and the cup failed. In mechanics, its never safe to assume things are as they should be.... Never thought to check them...probably why as a mechanic...I would make a good undertaker. Decided not to do the cam, probably a waste of money as the gain would be either negligible or end up shortening the life of the engine too much.... Might have to just resign myself to buying one of the new Fords, they are supposed to be something else in the performance stakes. Yella Terra did have some issues with pushrod cup hardening failure. I bought a 220 engine with a big end knock for a repower. Rebuilt the engine, never found any issue with the bearings at all, could have re-used them they were that good. Put engine back together, installed and fired her up. Still knocking. Found the loose rocker by chance. Same issue. Replacement pushrod cups are available from Yella Terra, so it was a $20 fix. If only I knew that before I rebuilt the engine..... The 220's respond well to a cam as the heads have a lot of good work in them from the factory. But the valve springs & retainers are junk. I agree with Troy 100%, it won't effect the durability of the engine. The 220's got SPS rod bolts, so they can take more RPM without a problem
_________________ XA Faimont 351C, AU2 XR8 Manual 5.0, DA LTD 5.0, Mk1 Capri 5.0, 1995 Mustang 5.0, EF2 XR8 Manual, EF2 Fairmont Ghia 5.0, AU3 XR8 Auto, AU2 XR8 Auto, AU2 XR8 Manual Ute, TE Cortina 5.0 Manual, DU LTD 5.0 soon to be manual |
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| XR8220 |
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Would have saved about $1500 and 4 weeks garage time if I had looked up instead of down. Serious error on my behalf not taking cup failure into account.
Is there a better cam than the Crane 2031? Would it be better to get a grind more to my liking rather than an off-the-shelf-variety? Is there a cam grinder in Canberra or do I have to get it from Sydney if I choose this path? |
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| xafalcon |
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I get the factory roller cam re-profiled to my own specs. In fact, I get a stock HO roller cam re-profiled and sell the 220 cam which covers most of the cost. You'll also need slightly longer pushrods since they grind the base circle smaller to change the profile.
On GT40P's I use a cam around 222 @ 050 with 520 lift on 115LSA which is a nice street cam with 500RPM extra over the 220 cam. But everyone has different ideas about what they want the engine to do. Have a chat with a cam grinder like Crow
_________________ XA Faimont 351C, AU2 XR8 Manual 5.0, DA LTD 5.0, Mk1 Capri 5.0, 1995 Mustang 5.0, EF2 XR8 Manual, EF2 Fairmont Ghia 5.0, AU3 XR8 Auto, AU2 XR8 Auto, AU2 XR8 Manual Ute, TE Cortina 5.0 Manual, DU LTD 5.0 soon to be manual |
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| XR8220 |
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Yes, They are on my bucket list of people to have a chat to.
I like hearing from people that have actually done the job as well, as there are always variables to take into account. Ive read a number of threads, but most are somewhat dated, which is understandable, so I appreciate your input. Thanks for the info. 
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| XR8220 |
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nb, you wouldnt happen to know if there is a factory manual that can be purchased rather than the somewhat generic ones available off the shelf?
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| tripleexpansion |
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xafalcon wrote: I get the factory roller cam re-profiled to my own specs. In fact, I get a stock HO roller cam re-profiled and sell the 220 cam which covers most of the cost. You'll also need slightly longer pushrods since they grind the base circle smaller to change the profile. On GT40P's I use a cam around 222 @ 050 with 520 lift on 115LSA which is a nice street cam with 500RPM extra over the 220 cam. But everyone has different ideas about what they want the engine to do. Have a chat with a cam grinder like Crow Hi XR8220, I'm putting one of these engines freshened in my NC Fairlane and while it's out of the car have decided to re cam it. What sort of idle could I expect from your grind info. Also, what hp gains could I expect to make. I can change the rev limiter, so what would be the safest setting? How will it perform at 2000rpm cruising with that grind? I don't have a stall converter. Running reco'd std eb v8 trans and 3.27 lsd from a wagon. Luckily i found someone who could make the AU eec5 talk to the trans computer. Cheers.
_________________ '91 NC Fairlane Mint Original Paint, Fresh uprated 220 to 270kw Xr8 motor, re cammed with custom high torque grind. LSD, Underdriven accessories, Hand controls (i'm a wheelchair user), Custom twin 2.5" steel exhaust into 3", Hurricane headers, |
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| tripleexpansion |
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xafalcon wrote: I get the factory roller cam re-profiled to my own specs. In fact, I get a stock HO roller cam re-profiled and sell the 220 cam which covers most of the cost. You'll also need slightly longer pushrods since they grind the base circle smaller to change the profile. On GT40P's I use a cam around 222 @ 050 with 520 lift on 115LSA which is a nice street cam with 500RPM extra over the 220 cam. But everyone has different ideas about what they want the engine to do. Have a chat with a cam grinder like Crow Hi XR8220, I'm putting one of these engines freshened in my NC Fairlane and while it's out of the car have decided to re cam it. What sort of idle could I expect from your grind info. Also, what hp gains could I expect to make. I can change the rev limiter, so what would be the safest setting? How will it perform at 2000rpm cruising with that grind? I don't have a stall converter. Running reco'd std eb v8 trans and 3.27 lsd from a wagon. Luckily i found someone who could make the AU eec5 talk to the trans computer. Cheers.
_________________ '91 NC Fairlane Mint Original Paint, Fresh uprated 220 to 270kw Xr8 motor, re cammed with custom high torque grind. LSD, Underdriven accessories, Hand controls (i'm a wheelchair user), Custom twin 2.5" steel exhaust into 3", Hurricane headers, |
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| XR8220 |
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Hi Triple
Like you, I know little about the intricacies of upgrade to performance stats. I suggest talking to some performance shops and any Cam grinder/seller (as per XAfalcon's advice). There are very few (younger) mechanics that know much about 302 engines as they just don't work on them anymore. I had a very hard time finding (valuable) info, and the car is only 15yrs old...hence why I posted here. Everything came to a stop with my wheels as I (temporarily) ran out of money. But I hope to have a cam in before Xmas. Will keep you posted. NB let me know how you went...it would be interesting to compare notes.
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| tripleexpansion |
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Yep I'll keep you informed on this thread.
The transplant is set for early October as I've got leave from work. I'll be getting a standard billet cam re profiled first and sell the tickford one out of the motor to help fund the grind. The cam grinder only charges about $100 to $150 which, with all the advice is a good deal. The mustang forums say usually a 30 to 40hp gain can be expected but that's with standard heads. It's not worth installing cam gears for the price they are. I'll definitely get the under drive pulley kit tho. I'm off to the States so will prob pick up a few toys there too. I think a tweecer. Customs will just make me pay duty on big stuff like heads unless I get a dummy invoice and hope the officer ain't a car guy  See you here
_________________ '91 NC Fairlane Mint Original Paint, Fresh uprated 220 to 270kw Xr8 motor, re cammed with custom high torque grind. LSD, Underdriven accessories, Hand controls (i'm a wheelchair user), Custom twin 2.5" steel exhaust into 3", Hurricane headers, |
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