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EF vs AU cam position sensor 

 

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 Post subject: Re: EF vs AU cam position sensor
Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 9:36 pm 
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Worst comes to worst I can try to beg borrow steal a silly scope from the tafe... It is one thing I keep telling myself I am going to buy and then never know how much I want to spend or what frequency I should get...

It would be the worst looking sine wave too... I'd have pictured a wave that is mostly flat with a little "hill" at TDC... But still only have a basic understanding of these VR sensors... Unless the when the lug moves away it causes some collapsing magnetic field like a coil gets and hence the inverted spike...

I have no idea how the DOHC picks up the pulse... I think the sensors are in the back of the head but not sure how the read the cams...

Cheers,
Tim

 

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 Post subject: Re: EF vs AU cam position sensor
Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 9:40 pm 
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The dohc setup has bits that stick out from the cam centre which are quite long and pass by the sensor. So there is a bigger gap between the sensor and the cam between each trigger point. The wave would also be very funky lol.

That's kinda why I figure there is some leniency.
Just had a brain f@rt..
I could fit an au aux gear to the cam and mount the sensor in the rocker cover :)

 

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in the shed - .595" lift cam, GT4202, forged AU engine, ems 4424 ecu, glide & 5500 stall - next-bellhousing

XH ute daily - DOHC BA XR6 engine, T5, AU3 ECU, J3 chip, wideband & logger, ported BBM, 3" intake

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 Post subject: Re: EF vs AU cam position sensor
Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 9:49 pm 
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Yeah... Trying to get the hole just right may be a bugger and sensor to the right depth... May look d**k hanging out of there too and if something needs to be welded on or in then that's added time and cost...

And looking at your photo, at TDC that lug is going to be at about 5 o'clock which means you need ot mount the sensor through the front of the head then and avoid the belts...

Cheers,
Tim

 

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Performance: Complete AUII VCT Wiring & Power Train, Pacey Headers, 2.5" Exhaust, Exedy Clutch, DBA Rotors
Visuals: FG XR Wheel, XR Front, 17's, BA 5 Spd Shifter, BA Ghia Window Switches, NL Cluster
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 Post subject: Re: EF vs AU cam position sensor
Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 9:54 pm 
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it really depends where the keyway is in that gear. either way i dont mind making a hole in the head lol.
ill try the EF sensor first basically. if that doesn't work i'll mod the rocker cover.

realistically i could just make a weld blob on a cam gear where i want and just make sure its high enough, but i'd put a bet on the EF sensor working ;)

 

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XG Panelvan
mild engine, EL ECU & J3, HI6 & MSD coil

in the shed - .595" lift cam, GT4202, forged AU engine, ems 4424 ecu, glide & 5500 stall - next-bellhousing

XH ute daily - DOHC BA XR6 engine, T5, AU3 ECU, J3 chip, wideband & logger, ported BBM, 3" intake

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 Post subject: Re: EF vs AU cam position sensor
Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 11:53 pm 
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you know i could actually make a new sensor using an EF CMP base modified to have tyhe trigger from the BA camshaft and the BA CMP.
i'll grab the bits tomorrow just in case the EF one doesnt work.

i'll make up an EF sensor with the hall effect trigger modified and one from the BA bits (or AU either or) and as a last resort put a hole in the rocker cover with an AU aux gear on the camshaft.

i'll have a crack at re-pinning the ECU this weekend me thinks :)

 

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XG Panelvan
mild engine, EL ECU & J3, HI6 & MSD coil

in the shed - .595" lift cam, GT4202, forged AU engine, ems 4424 ecu, glide & 5500 stall - next-bellhousing

XH ute daily - DOHC BA XR6 engine, T5, AU3 ECU, J3 chip, wideband & logger, ported BBM, 3" intake

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 Post subject: Re: EF vs AU cam position sensor
Posted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 5:15 pm 
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If you are going to go to all this trouble, just fit an AU Timing case and fit the AU Sensor.
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 Post subject: Re: EF vs AU cam position sensor
Posted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 5:17 pm 
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all what trouble?

its alot easier doing any of the things i've suggested than replacing an engine or dropping the sump and timing case which is just as much as a f**k around.

i fail to see how either grinding the EF sensor to shape or gluing the BA sensor to the EF stalk is less trouble than a timing case.

 

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XG Panelvan
mild engine, EL ECU & J3, HI6 & MSD coil

in the shed - .595" lift cam, GT4202, forged AU engine, ems 4424 ecu, glide & 5500 stall - next-bellhousing

XH ute daily - DOHC BA XR6 engine, T5, AU3 ECU, J3 chip, wideband & logger, ported BBM, 3" intake

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 Post subject: Re: EF vs AU cam position sensor
Posted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 5:31 pm 
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its just bodgy...

just use the ef sensor..
I know of a au conversion into a ef that was using the au cam sensor on ef ecu..
so in theory it should work the other way around as well...
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 Post subject: Re: EF vs AU cam position sensor
Posted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 5:40 pm 
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lol whyd you wait til now to say that troy?

the EF sensor unmodified is not likely to work due the differences in the signal being produced but i'll give it a shot.
i'm just waiting to get some info regarding 3 pins that i was unsure of then i'll proceed.

 

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XG Panelvan
mild engine, EL ECU & J3, HI6 & MSD coil

in the shed - .595" lift cam, GT4202, forged AU engine, ems 4424 ecu, glide & 5500 stall - next-bellhousing

XH ute daily - DOHC BA XR6 engine, T5, AU3 ECU, J3 chip, wideband & logger, ported BBM, 3" intake

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 Post subject: Re: EF vs AU cam position sensor
Posted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 6:03 pm 
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I seen it on here, but cant remember who was running the au cas on ef ecu..

the only thing I can see could cause an issue is the ef is not sequential, so the signal duration might not be as important to the ef ecu compared to au.
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 Post subject: Re: EF vs AU cam position sensor
Posted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 6:06 pm 
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Troy is right. AU sensor has been used on an EF install with an EF ECU.

I have never heard of anyone using the EF Sensor setup with the AU ECU.
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 Post subject: Re: EF vs AU cam position sensor
Posted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 6:08 pm 
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The ef sensor has a 180 degree trigger but at at the end of the day I think in either case the ecu is just looking for a spike in volts

 

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XG Panelvan
mild engine, EL ECU & J3, HI6 & MSD coil

in the shed - .595" lift cam, GT4202, forged AU engine, ems 4424 ecu, glide & 5500 stall - next-bellhousing

XH ute daily - DOHC BA XR6 engine, T5, AU3 ECU, J3 chip, wideband & logger, ported BBM, 3" intake

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 Post subject: Re: EF vs AU cam position sensor
Posted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 7:08 pm 
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The AU sensor will register once every 2 revolutions of the motor.

The Cam gear will rotate 1/2 a turn for every full rotation of the engine. The cam gear and the AUX gear are the same size. So the sensor will spike every 2 rotations.

It is the same with the EF sensor. The gear drive on the AUX shaft is a 1:1 ratio.

As long as you can get a signal from the sensor that the AU ECU will interpret then you should have no issues.

As for putting a hole in the head, there is no reason that this would not work as long as you can position the pin at TDC.
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 Post subject: Re: EF vs AU cam position sensor
Posted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 7:08 pm 
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If fitting the AU sensor to the head, the position of the sensor would be at around 135deg from the timing mark.
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 Post subject: Re: EF vs AU cam position sensor
Posted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 7:20 pm 
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Yeah ifs all good. I just mentioned the other bits as a worst case kinda thing. I can't see it not working with the ef sensor

 

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XG Panelvan
mild engine, EL ECU & J3, HI6 & MSD coil

in the shed - .595" lift cam, GT4202, forged AU engine, ems 4424 ecu, glide & 5500 stall - next-bellhousing

XH ute daily - DOHC BA XR6 engine, T5, AU3 ECU, J3 chip, wideband & logger, ported BBM, 3" intake

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