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HID ballast failure - low beams cutting out 

 

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 Post subject: HID ballast failure - low beams cutting out
Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 10:29 am 
Oompa Loompa
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Hi guys, im after a bit of advice regarding a cheap HID kit that has been on my XH ute since i bought it. The ute has an XR6 front end.

HIDs have only been installed on the low beams

When i switch on the lowbeams the lights work fine. When i activate high beam, low beam is disabled, as i standard on the XH. When i return to low beam, the HIDs dont work and i have no headlights.

I have changed out relays and ran fixed earth wires to no avail.

I have read before that HID dont like being switched on and off repeatedly and that this can cause premature failure of the ballasts. It does seem odd the two ballasts would die at the same time.

So the way i see it i have four options:

1. Install hid highbeams
This seems like a good idea however the the XH have two seperate relays for the headlights. So switching to highbeam would be like quickly terminating the ballast and then switching it back on. This is very quick so im not sure whether or not it would mean the ballast will s**t itself.

2. Piggyback the HID to the highbeams as well.
This would mean my headlights stay on when highbeam is enabled. I'm not sure if this is legal, i know HIDs are illegal in the first place however i dont want to make the problem worse and increase my "cop bait" factor. Running two sets of headlights through the same wiring could also be a factor

3. Install standard headlights.
I have got a couple of sets of XR6 headlights spare in the shed. Would i be better off just returning the entire system to standard

4. Buy another set of ballasts.
This will probably have to happen anyway as the ballasts are obviosly close to failure anyway. i could just install new ballasts and leave the system as is. The s**t chinese ballasts that fit the HID system on the car are only 25 buks each

I have a photo of the ballast if it helps
Image

Any input would be great,
Ev

 

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 Post subject: Re: HID ballast failure - low beams cutting out
Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 8:14 pm 
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not sure of wire colours but why not replace the ballast - find the power from headlight switch into dipper switch when the headlights are turned on and bridge to low beam circuit at dipper switch wiring so low beam comes on when headlights are turned on and stays on when you dip to hi beam circuit..................
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 Post subject: Re: HID ballast failure - low beams cutting out
Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 9:48 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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Yeah not a bad idea. I've got a gregorys manual here somewhere ill have a look how the headlights are wired

 

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 Post subject: Re: HID ballast failure - low beams cutting out
Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 10:15 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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seems easy enough use the highbeam +ve wire as a trigger wire for the lowbeams. Will the lowbeams still flick off briefly?

 

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 Post subject: Re: HID ballast failure - low beams cutting out
Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 10:25 pm 
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It needs the diode fitted so the low beams stay on with the high beams.

 

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 Post subject: Re: HID ballast failure - low beams cutting out
Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 9:58 pm 
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Still not sure of wire colours,
but what you should be connecting is at the connector for dipper switch, the power from your headlight switch (violet/white )-(gets power when headlight switch is turned on) to LOW beam wire (orange/yellow) this way low beam will stay on when headlight switch is turned on and hi beam will turn on and off with dipper switch and both circuits will still operate thru original relays - colours are from loom side of dipper switch connector

your hi beam "FLASH" will operate on the inside lights only, unless you put a diode between the hi and low beam circuits (diode should face low beam circuit doesn't need to be to large 2-3 amps as it is operating relays)....this part is up to you if desired or not .........but you will be flashing your HID low beam
Attachment:
low beam bypass.bmp
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 Post subject: Re: HID ballast failure - low beams cutting out
Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:24 am 
Oompa Loompa
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Cheers for the replies fellas

the diode would work matt, however while in switching between high and low, low would still flick off quickly, as i throw the switch

ted your idea is a solution, however, the dipper swicth connects EARTH to either the low or high beams. The headlight switch provides POWER to the dipper switch. So i would have to reverse the wiring of either the dipper switch or the headlight switch for you solution to work.

 

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 Post subject: Re: HID ballast failure - low beams cutting out
Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 10:07 am 
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street_xh wrote:
Cheers for the replies fellas

the diode would work matt, however while in switching between high and low, low would still flick off quickly, as i throw the switch

ted your idea is a solution, however, the dipper switch connects EARTH to either the low or high beams. The headlight switch provides POWER to the dipper switch. So i would have to reverse the wiring of either the dipper switch or the headlight switch for you solution to work.




now the way i read what you saying don't gell ....... one cannot earth & the other cannot supply power to it

now i'm presuming the XH correlates to the EF [? altho i canna see the EL being differant] & when i checked the wiring pic in the max ellory it shows the headlight switch & the headlight stalk having an earth based connection between themselves AND the headlight relays. pwr is supplied straight to the relays - the headlight switch/headlight stalk only earth them

hope that helps ya
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 Post subject: Re: HID ballast failure - low beams cutting out
Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 10:22 am 
Oompa Loompa
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if this helps
Image

a sparky mate had a look yesterday, sent me a picture of a solution that does no require a diode:
Image

cheers mad,
both the headlight switch and the dipper switch receive constant earth. the dipper switch only becomes active when the headlight switch sends power to the dipper switch. This is the Red/Yellow Positive wire shown between the headlight switch and the dipper switch on the first drawing.

So if i wanted to use the red/yellow wire to activate the low beams, i would have to reverse the wiring on the headlight switch, not hard however the headlight switch also controls a lot of other things (illumination, tell tails etc.) that i would also have to reverse.

Or am i reading something wrong?

 

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 Post subject: Re: HID ballast failure - low beams cutting out
Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 10:42 am 
Oompa Loompa
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to keep the low beams on while mid-switch to having both sets of lights on do i need a pnp transistor and 12v capasitor? not great with the electronic stuff....

 

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 Post subject: Re: HID ballast failure - low beams cutting out
Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 11:17 am 
Oompa Loompa
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will this work?
Image

my first wiring drawing ever lol, im not sure is the capasitor/transistor is correctly drawn. or if its supposed to be a NPN transistor...

 

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 Post subject: Re: HID ballast failure - low beams cutting out
Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 12:08 pm 
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street_xh wrote:
if this helps
Image

a sparky mate had a look yesterday, sent me a picture of a solution that does no require a diode:
Image

cheers mad,
both the headlight switch and the dipper switch receive constant earth. the dipper switch only becomes active when the headlight switch sends power to the dipper switch. This is the Red/Yellow Positive wire shown between the headlight switch and the dipper switch on the first drawing.

So if i wanted to use the red/yellow wire to activate the low beams, i would have to reverse the wiring on the headlight switch, not hard however the headlight switch also controls a lot of other things (illumination, tell tails etc.) that i would also have to reverse.

Or am i reading something wrong?



interesting that yours shows that

Image

max ellory book shows earth connections no power
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 Post subject: Re: HID ballast failure - low beams cutting out
Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 12:18 pm 
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You're getting way too hard...

On my Ed with XR front the lows have to stay one because they're a h1 lamp and don't have a high element...

I have HID's fitted to the low beams with the proper internals so they have the solenoid drop out doors when you go to high which "lifts" the beam... As well as my Phillips H3 55W high beams coming into play (all 4 lights on high beam)...

All I did was add a diode between the coil wires on the high low relays... The AU wiring and relay box I fitted already had a diode in it for the EEC supply but had a "spare" so I borrowed wiring from another and used the factory diode... If I remove it I can fit std ED lamps and use the H4 dual filaments... If I fit it then the low beam relay stays in when highs are turned on...

Now the headlight dipper switch is make before break... This means that the highs make before the lows break... Try it for yourself... I did and this is how I came to my simply solution... Same way on the way back... Lows make before highs break... If they didn't do this you'd be driving in total darkness for as fraction of a second... Meaning if you use the diode then the signal is transferred through the alternate means before being lost... And there is no flicker in the low beam relay at all...

The original method of the ED XR lighting used a diode and a 5 pin relay but they method of it meant the the low flickered as you said because the low element was supplied from the high relay not it's relay and the output of the relay (relay switching time) caused dramas... So I went about fixing it...

Only time mine flicker is when I flash the high beams... And I have high quality HID's imported from the USA and haven't had one issue at all... Morrimoto stuff supplied from TRS... Not the most expensive out there but a more so than the ebay ones...

My HID conversion with the HID projectors is all in my build thread... Wiring details and such scattered throughout...

Original ED wiring and XR modified wiring that I traced and drew here:
Attachment:
ED Falcon Headlights Wiring (Non XR).pdf [31.01 KiB]
Downloaded 58 times

Attachment:
ED Falcon Headlights Wiring (XR).pdf [29.67 KiB]
Downloaded 49 times


As you can see std XR wiring was over complicated... One small diode in the switching circuit rather than a 5 pin relay and a high current diode in the power circuit is much easier and doesn't suffer from relay changeover time...

If you need anything just sing out... I've been there done this so can offer insight where needed...

Cheers,
Tim

 

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 Post subject: Re: HID ballast failure - low beams cutting out
Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 12:29 pm 
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My drawing has the headlight switch in the wrong part too... It is in the earth after the dipper switch... Both AU and ED Genuine Factory manuals show that the headlight switch provides earth to the dipper...

Attachment:
falcon-au-2.pdf [142.83 KiB]
Downloaded 48 times


Cheers,
Tim

 

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 Post subject: Re: HID ballast failure - low beams cutting out
Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 12:32 pm 
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The constant earth to your dipper switch is for the flash function when the head lamps are off... Because your drawing show no switch internals it makes it really hard to understand the system... R-Y isn't a power wire...

Cheers,
Tim

 

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