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Power window fuse live with key off? 

 

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 Post subject: Power window fuse live with key off?
Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 7:04 pm 
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Hi everybody! I'm in the process of doing a power window conversion in one of my EFs - I decided to add a wire to the fuse box and use the power window fuse since there's already a space for it in the fuse box.

So there is one wire already connected in the back of that slot, so I decided to check for power before adding the other wire connector and fuse. Hooked up the multimeter, and there is constant +12V at that wire.... Is this normal? The one above it (labelled Auto CC), which is another that has only one wire connected, only has +12V at reds, yet the power window one has power even with the key off.

Should I just run the windows off the Auto CC fuse location, or is there a reason for the power window one being odd?
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 Post subject: Re: Power window fuse live with key off?
Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 7:46 pm 
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Or is the other wire (the one that is missing in a vehicle with manual windows) supposed to then go to a relay somewhere controlled by BEM possibly?
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 Post subject: Re: Power window fuse live with key off?
Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 2:17 pm 
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ford-technical-document-smartlock-d26
ford-technical-document-power-window-conversion-d21

 

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 Post subject: Re: Power window fuse live with key off?
Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 5:55 pm 
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snap0964 wrote:
http://www.fordmods.com/ford-technical-document-smartlock-d26
ford-technical-document-power-window-conversion-d21


Thanks, had a look at those before. I was going to swap the BEM from my donor EF to test it, but when I pulled it out it's the blue one, which is the El mid series, yeah? Seems the previous owner has modified the wiring on the bottom connector to it as well, so probably not a good idea to try that one?
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 Post subject: Re: Power window fuse live with key off?
Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 6:22 pm 
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5h4dy wrote:
snap0964 wrote:
http://www.fordmods.com/ford-technical-document-smartlock-d26
ford-technical-document-power-window-conversion-d21


Thanks, had a look at those before. I was going to swap the BEM from my donor EF to test it, but when I pulled it out it's the blue one, which is the El mid series, yeah? Seems the previous owner has modified the wiring on the bottom connector to it as well, so probably not a good idea to try that one?


After doing more research, it turns out it is an EF BEM, and it's blue. Plugged into the car now, going through the learning process and will see what happens
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 Post subject: Re: Power window fuse live with key off?
Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 6:33 pm 
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EL BCM and EF BCM are not interchangable.
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 Post subject: Re: Power window fuse live with key off?
Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 6:38 pm 
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SWC wrote:
EL BCM and EF BCM are not interchangable.


Yes, I'm aware - that's why I wasn't going to try it since that tech doc said blue was EL. It's not EL. The doc also said that low series EF was grey. Mine's black. And no, none of my cars are EL. I have 3 EFs and an EB
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 Post subject: Re: Power window fuse live with key off?
Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 7:58 pm 
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So same issue with the new BEM installed, still constant 12V at the window fuse. I also cannot find a place where a relay can be installed for it, though there is a relay (which I assume is for the windows) in the donor car
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 Post subject: Re: Power window fuse live with key off?
Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 9:07 pm 
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After digging through various wiring diagrams, it appears that the wire in that part of the fuse block is supposed to be constant power - which then takes me back to my previous theory, that the missing wire would then connect to a relay to be switched from the BEM after going through the fuse.

Does this mean I have to go to the trouble of adding wires from the BEM and putting a relay in somewhere? Or would I be better off using that Auto CC fuse location that already has switched power? Would that cause me any dramas?

I realise that then I would not have the option of having the timed key-off window operation, but is it worth going to the trouble of jacking a wire into the BEM and working out how to string a relay into this setup?
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 Post subject: Re: Power window fuse live with key off?
Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 10:28 pm 
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The power window relay mounts on the back of the fuse panel normally - where you add the extra fuse panel terminal for the cct breaker, that then goes to the relay contacts and relay coil, then the relay coil goes to earth through the BEM, hence the timed cut out. The other relay contact then goes to the console switches.
You could bypass all that and just route the cct breaker output directly to the console switches - just means there's no time out.
Depends what you prefer - the relay isn't that hard to wire up.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Power window fuse live with key off?
Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 6:02 pm 
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snap0964 wrote:
The power window relay mounts on the back of the fuse panel normally - where you add the extra fuse panel terminal for the cct breaker, that then goes to the relay contacts and relay coil, then the relay coil goes to earth through the BEM, hence the timed cut out. The other relay contact then goes to the console switches.
You could bypass all that and just route the cct breaker output directly to the console switches - just means there's no time out.
Depends what you prefer - the relay isn't that hard to wire up.



Thanks mate, I was beginning to suspect that was the case. I'll get back under the dash of the donor car and rip out a relay and get wiring :mrgreen:
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 Post subject: Re: Power window fuse live with key off?
Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2015 8:04 pm 
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snap0964 wrote:
The power window relay mounts on the back of the fuse panel normally - where you add the extra fuse panel terminal for the cct breaker, that then goes to the relay contacts and relay coil, then the relay coil goes to earth through the BEM, hence the timed cut out. The other relay contact then goes to the console switches.
You could bypass all that and just route the cct breaker output directly to the console switches - just means there's no time out.
Depends what you prefer - the relay isn't that hard to wire up.



So let's just say I went to all the trouble and did all the wiring, and then had to go back to a low series BEM, is there anywhere else I can connect the ground switching wire so that I can have the windows only working with the key on?

Basically is there any switched earth wire I can tap into, or are they all constant ground?
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 Post subject: Re: Power window fuse live with key off?
Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2015 8:15 pm 
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5h4dy wrote:

So let's just say I went to all the trouble and did all the wiring, and then had to go back to a low series BEM, is there anywhere else I can connect the ground switching wire so that I can have the windows only working with the key on?

Basically is there any switched earth wire I can tap into, or are they all constant ground?



can use a relay thats powered from the ignition switch that earths ya wire. so only on with ignition on :mrgreen:
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 Post subject: Re: Power window fuse live with key off?
Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2015 8:23 pm 
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Mad2 wrote:
5h4dy wrote:

So let's just say I went to all the trouble and did all the wiring, and then had to go back to a low series BEM, is there anywhere else I can connect the ground switching wire so that I can have the windows only working with the key on?

Basically is there any switched earth wire I can tap into, or are they all constant ground?



can use a relay thats powered from the ignition switch that earths ya wire. so only on with ignition on :mrgreen:


The way it's wired, it's waiting for an earth signal from the BEM which then energises the relay, and provides +12v to my window switches. I would rather not have to rewire it all, just want to find another earth that is only there when the ignition is on
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 Post subject: Re: Power window fuse live with key off?
Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2015 8:43 pm 
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5h4dy wrote:
Mad2 wrote:
5h4dy wrote:

So let's just say I went to all the trouble and did all the wiring, and then had to go back to a low series BEM, is there anywhere else I can connect the ground switching wire so that I can have the windows only working with the key on?

Basically is there any switched earth wire I can tap into, or are they all constant ground?



can use a relay thats powered from the ignition switch that earths ya wire. so only on with ignition on :mrgreen:


The way it's wired, it's waiting for an earth signal from the BEM which then energises the relay, and provides +12v to my window switches. I would rather not have to rewire it all, just want to find another earth that is only there when the ignition is on


Or if that isn't possible, can I change pin 85 to constant ground, and then use a low amperage switched +12v on 86? Being that it's just a trigger for the relay, can it be a low amp source, or does it need to be able to handle the 20-40amp required to run the windows?

I'm still trying to teach myself the electrical stuff, and some of it is confusing me...
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