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Reversed battery now car won't crank 

 

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 Post subject: Re: Reversed battery now car won't crank
Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 7:53 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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Ride: XH Ute / ED falon

Location: Beenleigh
QLD, Australia

Update:

We have found that it is not the relay, the relay does click when placed in other spots, eg the horn.

The battery drops to just below 12v when you turn the key to start it however there is still no crank. My neighbour believes it is now a little diode that is shown on the circuit diagram, he believes this could of blown as it seems to be the only reasonable explanation.

Does anyone know where this diode is located?.. Or has any other ideas?

 

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 Post subject: Re: Reversed battery now car won't crank
Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 9:50 pm 
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Ride: ED Falcon

Power: 133 rwkw

Location: Leeton
NSW, Australia

Mate a diode only lets current through one way... To blow a diode up you have you have to pass more current through it than it's rated for... This is exceedingly hard with the power hooked up in reverse because they don't conduct (not with 12V anyway, a 1N4004 diode will block 400DC Volts in reverse)... And I've seen one go under normal conditions so I highly highly doubt it...

The relay clicks in the horn position... Does it click in the start position? You've proved the relay is fine... How about the trigger wire to the start relay base? How about power to the start relay base contacts? Have you tried bridging across the contacts in the base like I said and trying to make the car manually crank over to prove the starter works?

Have you tried jump starting the car with your battery installed? Borrow your neighbours car... Rule out collapsed battery for me...

 

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 Post subject: Re: Reversed battery now car won't crank
Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 9:55 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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I'm seriously biting off more than I can chew with this I think :?

No relay clicks in the position where the start relay goes. Do you know what colour the trigger wire is? Sorry if I'm asking so many questions I don't mean to frustrate anyone :?

Also what should I use to bridge the contacts to see if it starts?

 

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 Post subject: Re: Reversed battery now car won't crank
Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 10:26 pm 
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Power: 133 rwkw

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NSW, Australia

Bridge is a piece of wire with a spade terminal crimped on each end... Like what comes in the cheap an nasty kits from super cheap and the like... Piece of heavy-ish gauge wire and bare the ends and crimp the male spade terminal on the ends...

Right...

Here's the workshop manual page...

Attachment:
EA EB ED Factory Manual Voumel 2.pdf [43.98 KiB]
Downloaded 119 times


Now from this...

Coil +VE should have 12V with the key held to start Red w/ Blue
Coil -VE should be negative with the transmission in neutral or park Orange w/ Black
Contact Line should be positive always Yellow w/ Black
Contact Load should run to the starter solenoid, and would probably show negative with the relay off... Red

Test these points... Let me know if any don't function as above... If you have a multimeter measure the ohms between Coil -VE and body and Contact Load & body (negative battery terminal is as good as the body), don't use the beeper mode use ohms mode and pay particular attention to the units on the mutlimeter, be it ohms, k ohms, or M ohms...

Cheers,
Tim

 

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 Post subject: Re: Reversed battery now car won't crank
Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 10:35 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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Age: 28

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Ride: XH Ute / ED falon

Location: Beenleigh
QLD, Australia

Holy mackerel :o that's fantastic!

Thankyou so so so much tim I can't say thankyou enough.

I'll do an update tomorrow when I've tried everything :o

Thankyou again

 

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 Post subject: Re: Reversed battery now car won't crank
Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 10:41 pm 
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Age: 28

Posts: 3705

Joined: 27th Sep 2006

Gallery: 20 images

Ride: ED Falcon

Power: 133 rwkw

Location: Leeton
NSW, Australia

No worries... And try and find a battery that is known good... If that battery had no acid in it at all then filling it with water wont help much as it requires a battery containing acid to turn the water to acid in the first instance... Also if it had no acid then it is likely the plates are riddled with corrosion... Even if the battery works it's likely to not live much longer...

Cheers,
Tim

 

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Performance: Complete AUII VCT Wiring & Power Train, Pacey Headers, 2.5" Exhaust, Exedy Clutch, DBA Rotors
Visuals: FG XR Wheel, XR Front, 17's, BA 5 Spd Shifter, BA Ghia Window Switches, NL Cluster
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 Post subject: Re: Reversed battery now car won't crank
Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 8:45 am 
Stock as a Rock
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Location: greensborough
VIC, Australia

ba, are rubbish... i think not, the front end of the ba is so much nicer that bf, with its random notches in wierd places, the only bonus is the sound in them... even then an after market system changes that anyway...

10mm ha i was stuffing about, of course everyone has one.
its a very strange problem, due to the fact a fuze shouldnt blow with reverse current, only current that is in surplus of its rating.
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 Post subject: Re: Reversed battery now car won't crank
Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 11:43 am 
Oompa Loompa
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Age: 28

Posts: 46

Joined: 27th Oct 2008

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Ride: XH Ute / ED falon

Location: Beenleigh
QLD, Australia

Update:

We have movement! I used a make shift jumper thanks to tims help and bridging the 30 to 87 connectors on the relay base got the car to start all be it the battery I was using was flatter than a pancake at the time.

With the relay in however still no crank. It just sits dead which leads me to believe there is a problem getting the relay to close. Im obviously looking for a broken connection somewhere most likely a blown wire, however I'm at a loss again as it which one.

I just want to say thankyou everyone from the bottom of my heart for helping me with this :D

You all deserve a pat on the back. I'm too poor to give everyone cash prizes haha.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Reversed battery now car won't crank
Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 12:58 pm 
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Age: 28

Posts: 3705

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Gallery: 20 images

Ride: ED Falcon

Power: 133 rwkw

Location: Leeton
NSW, Australia

Test the coil +VE and coil -VE i listed last time and let me know which one isn't behaving as I detailed above...

This will assist me in telling you where to look next...

Multimeter set to ohms from coil -VE to battery negative terminal. Tell me how many ohms?

Test light in coil +VE, should glow when key is held to start.

You're saying the battery was still catcus after being charged?

Cheers,
Tim

 

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93 Red ED 5spd Manual Build Thread

Performance: Complete AUII VCT Wiring & Power Train, Pacey Headers, 2.5" Exhaust, Exedy Clutch, DBA Rotors
Visuals: FG XR Wheel, XR Front, 17's, BA 5 Spd Shifter, BA Ghia Window Switches, NL Cluster
Tunes: 8" Pioneer Sub, JBL Speakers, Clarion Double DIN Headunit

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 Post subject: Re: Reversed battery now car won't crank
Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 1:09 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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Age: 28

Posts: 46

Joined: 27th Oct 2008

Gallery: 6 images

Ride: XH Ute / ED falon

Location: Beenleigh
QLD, Australia

Edit:

I looked at the wires going to the bottom of the relay base so now I know what are what haha silly me.

The yellow/black has constant power, and when bridged to the red the engine cranks, the battery I'm using didn't have enough power to get it start however, I'm using the battery that was out of my ute (had acid in it unlike the other I filled and left on charge over night). This battery was down to around 2v last night but put it on charge at had it sitting at 11.98v when I used it this morning.

There is maybe 1milli ohm resistance across the coil -VE to negative terminal, no voltage is shown across coil +VE

Edit2:

Voltage shown across coil +VE to battery negative is shown at 0.008v, test light does not come on.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Reversed battery now car won't crank
Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 1:52 pm 
Technical Contributor
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Age: 28

Posts: 3705

Joined: 27th Sep 2006

Gallery: 20 images

Ride: ED Falcon

Power: 133 rwkw

Location: Leeton
NSW, Australia

One milli ohm would probably show as .001 ohms? As long as there is less than 1 ohm (not 1k or 1M).

Edit 2 was done with the key held to start?

Next stage is to check voltage at the ignition barrel,

Remove the bottom shroud (couple of screws or scrivets depending on model) and you should be able to see the wiring to back of the barrel? You're looking for a Red w/ Blue wire there... Probe it and turn the key to start and see if it glows? Use any unpainted surface for a ground...

Cheers,
Tim

 

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93 Red ED 5spd Manual Build Thread

Performance: Complete AUII VCT Wiring & Power Train, Pacey Headers, 2.5" Exhaust, Exedy Clutch, DBA Rotors
Visuals: FG XR Wheel, XR Front, 17's, BA 5 Spd Shifter, BA Ghia Window Switches, NL Cluster
Tunes: 8" Pioneer Sub, JBL Speakers, Clarion Double DIN Headunit

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 Post subject: Re: Reversed battery now car won't crank
Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 2:08 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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Age: 28

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Joined: 27th Oct 2008

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Ride: XH Ute / ED falon

Location: Beenleigh
QLD, Australia

Yes 0.001 ohm

And yes it was done with the key held on the start position.

I found what looks to bea red/blue wire when turned to acces. The wire has power but when held in the start position it has no power. There's no red/blue that goes directly to the ignition barrel from what I can see.. A lot of yellows and blacks. The red/blue comes out of a connector that has the wiper relay wiring on it (found that out when I was probing with my test light and I got a back covered in water haha).

Maybe I'm not looking in the right spot?

 

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 Post subject: Re: Reversed battery now car won't crank
Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 2:23 pm 
Technical Contributor
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Age: 28

Posts: 3705

Joined: 27th Sep 2006

Gallery: 20 images

Ride: ED Falcon

Power: 133 rwkw

Location: Leeton
NSW, Australia

Maybe the barrel is different... Trace the barrel wiring to brown plug at the base of the column and see if the red w/ blue wire is in it? Probe in the back of the pin and turn the key to start...

Cheers,
Tim

 

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93 Red ED 5spd Manual Build Thread

Performance: Complete AUII VCT Wiring & Power Train, Pacey Headers, 2.5" Exhaust, Exedy Clutch, DBA Rotors
Visuals: FG XR Wheel, XR Front, 17's, BA 5 Spd Shifter, BA Ghia Window Switches, NL Cluster
Tunes: 8" Pioneer Sub, JBL Speakers, Clarion Double DIN Headunit

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 Post subject: Re: Reversed battery now car won't crank
Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 2:26 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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Age: 28

Posts: 46

Joined: 27th Oct 2008

Gallery: 6 images

Ride: XH Ute / ED falon

Location: Beenleigh
QLD, Australia

Found a brown connector with a thin red/blue wire coming out of it. No power until the key is held in the start position.

If that's the case then power would be coming out of the barrel but not getting to the relay?.. So maybe the smart lock?

I think ive found the problem =]

I pulled the smart lock out to have a look just to double check and this is what I discovered;

Image

I am not an electronics savvey person however I have a feeling that this is the problem, it smells burnt and the areas that look abnormal are on the circuit path for the starter relay.

Just want to be doubly sure that is the problem.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Reversed battery now car won't crank
Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 7:02 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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Age: 28

Posts: 46

Joined: 27th Oct 2008

Gallery: 6 images

Ride: XH Ute / ED falon

Location: Beenleigh
QLD, Australia

It's alive!

I bypassed the 18 and 25 pin on the smart lock and it cranked first go, the battery is flat so I'll get a jump in the morning and get a new one.

I want to thank everyone for the help especially tim =]

Wonderful job guys I thankyou all from the bottom of my heart.

 

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