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5.0 EFI conversion trouble shooting .... help needed please. 

 

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 Post subject: 5.0 EFI conversion trouble shooting .... help needed please.
Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 8:31 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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Location: launceston
TAS, Australia

Hey guys, I'm 95% finished putting a 5.0 out of my '96 Fairmont in my Range Rover. It's all bolted up and wired in, but as I hoped wouldn't happen when I turned thek key...... infact has..... NO GO !!!!

I have spark, but no fuel...... How do I trouble shoot to see if the injectors are getting power or squirting fuel ??? The plugs look dry. I have power going to the injectors on ignition, so I'm guessing a pulse or earth makes them operate ??
I'm using a smart lock bypass module, looks to be outputting about .35V to pin 3 of the ECU, does that sound right ???

Any help on things to check would be greatly appreciated, I'm really getting 4WD withdrawel symtoms, and this thing should be heaps of funs to drive when it starts !!!!!

I have a project link below if it helps... THANKS !!!
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Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2008 2:09 pm 
Stock as a Rock
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Hey there mate. First I would eliminate from the fuel pump to the engine. First I assume that you have some form of relay for the fuel pump. Engage the relay and listen for the fuel pump. If it is going then have a look at the shrader valve. This should be located at the front left when looking from the front. There should be a screw c ap on it. Depress the valve and see if some fuel comes out.

The fuel should really squirt out (40 psi from memory) If you have a pressure device you can connect it to the valve to see if you have the right pressure. Also check to make sure you fuel lines are connected on the right pipes. If they are wrong the fuel wont get in!. Not that I have done that..hmmm

On the electric side turn the ignition on and see if you have 12v on both sides of your injectors. The injectors are grounded through the ECU.

And I'm assamed to admit this but...do you have fuel in the tank?

Pin 3 is a square wave cycle I think..there are some legends on the forums that know more about the smart lock stuff. Smartlock should disabel the starter and injectors as well.
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Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2008 7:00 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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Age: 37

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Location: launceston
TAS, Australia

Thanks Buddy
Well, I feel like a bit of a wank, I assumed the small terminal on the pump was neg......... wrong !!!! So, so at least I'm getting fuel through the rail, I have fuel coming out the return. Problem is, still won't fire.
I had a play earlier with the injector wires, checked that it was pulsing the earth wire and it was! So i was happy with that, and pos power on ign for the other wire.
That's when I went to work on the pumps, got that working, now I'm not getting any earth to the injectors The smart lock bypass is still putting out the same volts, .35v on ign, but dropping to around 20 when cranking...

Any ideas and help would be greatly appreciated !!!!
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Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 2:28 pm 
Stock as a Rock
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The ECU earths the injectors when it fires. You would have to put it on a scope I imagine to test it as it's all over in a matter of millseconds.

When I did my first conversion my first pump was buggered, even though it was brand new..fitted a new one and voila!

Later on I had another problem, pretty much exactly what you are getting, although I'm not sure if I had 12v on both pins of the injector. I retraced all of the power wires from the ECU and found that one of them was not connected properly. As soon as I connected it all was good again. There has to be 12v on both pins of the injectors while the ignition is on.

You could try a new BEM to eliminate the smartlock however just leaving the ignition to ON for 30 minutes will override the system and bypass the smartlock. There have been varying discussions on smartlock but the idea was smartlock would stop the car from cranking.

Another thought is the ECU relies on some form of positive crank to signal the injectors to fire. From memory it gets this from the pink tacho wire..it is essential that this is connected. Depending on the year of engine you may have a crank sensor. If the ECU does not sense that the engine is cranking it will not fire the injectors. Another remote possibility is the Wide Open Throttle. If WOT is detected (via full depress of the accelerator pedal or TPS fault) then the injectors are switch off. This only happens in crank mode though.

If you feel comfortable that the injectors are pulsing then all 8 injectors could be clogged (highly unlikely) and I would figure you would get some form of firing or the plug leads are on wrong or the dizzy is 180deg out and the firing sequence is out.

There are a few sensors that are vital for the starting however we can get onto those later as they usually just make the thing run a bit rough.

And lastly, check that all of your vacuum leads are connected and secure. If there is a vacuum leak then you will have big problems.

Anyways best of luck, I'll dig up my notebook to refresh my memory in case things are still bad.
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Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 3:51 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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Location: launceston
TAS, Australia

Thanks buddy !
The things that gets me, is the injectors appeared to be working fine yesterday morning, had +ve on one wire at ign, the other was a pulsing earth when cranking, but at that time I did not have fuel to the rail. Fixed the fuel and now it doesn't look like the injectors are getting that signal from the ecu...... :? I still have +ve on ign, but no earth to the other wire. But, when the key is switched off, the earth wire is showing as earthing out, is that normal ?
The engine is from a '96 EF. It's a strong motor, I know theres nothing wrong with because it came out of my car after I swapped it over for a 185kw version.
I don't think the EF had any crank sensors, correct me if I'm wrong but I thought it picked up the signal for the injectors from the dizzy ??
The timing is right, I've double checked that. I might try the 30 mins thing with ign on to see if that works, might pay to disconect the coil if i'm leaving it on for that long hey. The smart lock wouldn't effect the cranking as I have used a wire directly from the rangie ignition switch to the starter, but i'm guessing it stops any injectors from firing.

Cheers mate !!
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Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 5:21 pm 
Stock as a Rock
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Maybe you have buggered the wiring up somewhere. Nah the EF didn't have the crank sensors and yep it does get the signal from the dizzy. It's the pink wire that sends the signal to the tacho and the TCM for autos.

You can leave the coil connected, coils only screw up if they are cranked and the "spark" has no where to earth i.e. you hold a spark plug out for the bore for too long.

I wish I could help more, I can feel the pain you are going through..I have thrown many a tool out of the shed when I was doing mine..but now she is a eman machine...I'm just in the process of pissing off the BTR and putting in a C4.
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Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 5:53 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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Age: 37

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Location: launceston
TAS, Australia

Dammit,
Might be Auto Electrician time :(
It's obviaously not a smart lock issue, as leaving it with the ign on for about 45 mins didn't make any difference.
How do I check if the dizzy is sending signals back to the ecu ?
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Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 7:32 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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WA, Australia

the smartlock signal should not be 0.35v - that is most likely your issue. PM me if you want some help on it.
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