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Adding remote car start alarm to an ef???????? 

 

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 Post subject: Adding remote car start alarm to an ef????????
Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2005 8:15 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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Hey Guys,

I have installed a car start alarm into my ef ghia...all was going well until i went to trial it....

The ignition all powers up ok, but obviously, the smart lock system prevents the starter from engagng etc. I believe after thoroughly reading the electrical diagrams I can get it to start if i can find the starter relay..

Can some one tell me where to find this relay?

Cheers in advance.
Atech

 

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Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2005 8:21 pm 
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The starter relay is incorporated into the BEM

It wont activate unless the correct key is inserted into the ignition barrel, and turned to the ON position.

If you decide to bypass the starter relay, you then face the problem of NO SPARK and NO FUEL. The EEC-IV and EEC-V will not run spark or fuel to the engine unless again, the correct key is inserted into the ignition barrel, and turned to the ON position.


The ignition barrel sends a pre-determined code to the BEM when it is correctly turned to the ON position. If it doesnt receive the code, or receives a wrong code, it will immobilise the car, and wont allow the starter relay, or the ECU to function correctly.

Youre out of luck.

 

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Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2005 8:34 pm 
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Hmmmm, Well, its gonna be hard but I will find a way around these minor setbacks... even if it means pulling the BEM apart and experimenting. Does anyone have a diagram or info on the ignition barrel? or know where i could get some info. Better yet, has anyone got a spare or damaged ignition barrel????

I will mount a second barrel under the dash with a key in it permanently turned to on, only the smartlock wires will be fed to this barrel. all other ignition wires i will leave on the original ignition barrel to allow the car to be turned on with either the key or the remote.....aha.


Thanks PPL

 

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Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2005 8:43 pm 
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Yep, that will do the trick! It is the ONLY way around it, unless you wish to pioneer 'bypassing smartlock' :)

You could remould the steering column shroud to totally remove the provisions for an ignition key, and mount a 'start' button and a 'ign on' button on the dash, for the times you dont want to remote start the car. Just gotta make sure you dont leave it in gear :)

Just remember that if the car is stolen and recovered, your insurance co may not pay your claim if they find that you have a 2nd ign barrel which is used to override the factory immobilisation system - their insurance figures are based on the fact that the car has a reasonably good immobiliser installed. Something else to think about anyway.

 

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Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2005 4:03 pm 
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Waggin wrote:
Yep, that will do the trick! It is the ONLY way around it, unless you wish to pioneer 'bypassing smartlock' :)


Metro Ford sells a smart lock bypass, not cheap (last approximate $275), we want someone to devise a way of manufacturing the bypass on the cheap.

Maybe we should start up the thread "Challenge: Smart lock bypass? Who can make a device." again, I started it in the Fordmods Ver 1 and Mechanical Forums.

http://www.mechanicalforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=99

$275 isn't to bad for a engine conversion etc, but for just remote starting it seems a bit steep, we just need some more electronic nerds to work out this problem.

 

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Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2005 5:59 pm 
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How much does a remote starter kit cost, without the smartlock bypass kit?

Pyroay has one set up on his EL, ever since i seen that ive always wanted it but heard its VERY expensive? :cry:

 

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Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2005 3:06 pm 
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Daniel wrote:
How much does a remote starter kit cost, without the smartlock bypass kit?

Pyroay has one set up on his EL, ever since i seen that ive always wanted it but heard its VERY expensive? :cry:


Remote starter kits are not that expensive at all Look at jaycar alarm systems.... its just getting around smartlock that is ..

But if you have all the right equipment, Its only a few things that needed to be changed ..

It can be done, very cheapy, But the equipment you need, will cost more than what it is worth. .
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Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2005 3:24 pm 
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Damage wrote:
Waggin wrote:
Yep, that will do the trick! It is the ONLY way around it, unless you wish to pioneer 'bypassing smartlock' :)


Metro Ford sells a smart lock bypass, not cheap (last approximate $275), we want someone to devise a way of manufacturing the bypass on the cheap.

Maybe we should start up the thread "Challenge: Smart lock bypass? Who can make a device." again, I started it in the Fordmods Ver 1 and Mechanical Forums.

http://www.mechanicalforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=99

$275 isn't to bad for a engine conversion etc, but for just remote starting it seems a bit steep, we just need some more electronic nerds to work out this problem.


Someone with sufficient electrnoics knowledge should buy the kit, reverse engineer it, then sell a kit to the rest of us for $10/$20/$50 to recoup costs. (or be very generous, and just give away the plans).

 

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Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2005 3:38 pm 
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data_mine wrote:
Damage wrote:
Waggin wrote:
Yep, that will do the trick! It is the ONLY way around it, unless you wish to pioneer 'bypassing smartlock' :)


Metro Ford sells a smart lock bypass, not cheap (last approximate $275), we want someone to devise a way of manufacturing the bypass on the cheap.

Maybe we should start up the thread "Challenge: Smart lock bypass? Who can make a device." again, I started it in the Fordmods Ver 1 and Mechanical Forums.

http://www.mechanicalforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=99

$275 isn't to bad for a engine conversion etc, but for just remote starting it seems a bit steep, we just need some more electronic nerds to work out this problem.


Someone with sufficient electrnoics knowledge should buy the kit, reverse engineer it, then sell a kit to the rest of us for $10/$20/$50 to recoup costs. (or be very generous, and just give away the plans).

Wish it was that easy.

If I could take my car to someone in vic n they could do it for me i would, only thing is finding someone thats knows how to bypass smartlock

 

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Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2005 3:44 pm 
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Prolly a little easier on a car like Pyroay's as the fuel/spark computer does not have an integrated immobiliser....

But

Am I the only one who remembers the thread on FM V1 where the bloke had dismantled the ignition barrel and set up some sort of reflective material ? I forget the username....

You guys know more about smartlock than I do, but IIRC he stuck a reflective surface in there to give the barrel the impression that a key had been inserted and switch to on. Then the starter relay etc fairly simple from there on in.

 

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Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2005 3:58 pm 
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4.9 EF Futura wrote:
Prolly a little easier on a car like Pyroay's as the fuel/spark computer does not have an integrated immobiliser....

But

Am I the only one who remembers the thread on FM V1 where the bloke had dismantled the ignition barrel and set up some sort of reflective material ? I forget the username....

You guys know more about smartlock than I do, but IIRC he stuck a reflective surface in there to give the barrel the impression that a key had been inserted and switch to on. Then the starter relay etc fairly simple from there on in.

hahaha i was about to mention that...he used a some tazo's i think :P

 

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Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2005 4:15 pm 
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4.9 EF Futura wrote:
You guys know more about smartlock than I do, but IIRC he stuck a reflective surface in there to give the barrel the impression that a key had been inserted and switch to on. Then the starter relay etc fairly simple from there on in.


I am wondering why the barrel wouldn't know that it was trying to be tricked into thinking a key was in, surely if you can use some reflective surface then how would it know it wasn't just someone else's key??

 

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Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2005 5:21 pm 
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Happy wrote:
4.9 EF Futura wrote:
You guys know more about smartlock than I do, but IIRC he stuck a reflective surface in there to give the barrel the impression that a key had been inserted and switch to on. Then the starter relay etc fairly simple from there on in.


I am wondering why the barrel wouldn't know that it was trying to be tricked into thinking a key was in, surely if you can use some reflective surface then how would it know it wasn't just someone else's key??


Well the lock part of the lock, would stop a foreign key from turning to the ON/start position. So I guess smartlock, expects.

1 The right key in the lock to be able to turn the barrel
2 The sensor detects there is a key in the barrel, and it according to the BEM it 'must' be the rigth key because it turned the lock. So engage the EEC.

Without 1 you've got no steering (lcoked s/wheel) / starter motor.
Without 2 you've got no spark/fuel

Now the alarm looks after the startermotor bit (just like if it were hotwired), but we need something to fool #2 so it'll run.

I have the remote start hooked up in mine, and it won't turn over, the starter is blocked by BEM (ECC ?) too. You hear relays click over, but no starter.

 

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Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2005 5:32 pm 
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Datamine, your theories are pretty much spot on.

If you really want the car to crank via remote start, you can hook up a relay to the starter motor relay (out) line from the BEM.

But then you still have the problem where the EEC is immobilised.

 

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Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2005 5:33 pm 
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yay, flat battery time :)

 

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