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Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 3:16 pm 
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unclewoja wrote:
Spork wrote:
I would imagine that the factory ecu, even one 10 years old will be so far in front of aftermarket stuff it's not funny. And whatever it has will be more than sufficient to tune your car - it was designed for it! Also you get the benefit of 1000's of hours of factory tuning free! Insead of tuning from scratch with your MS.

I had a peek inside the software for a BA ecu, there are over 40 3D tables and 100 setup parameters just for the Auto transmisssion. -Compare that to a $3500 Motec M800 with 1 table.
Obviously the M800 is more biased for engine stuff but you get the point.


With all due respect Spork, the V8 supercars run Motec. If the Ford factory ECU was so great, wouldn't they run that?

You seem to be missing the point of an after market ECU. From what I've read of your posts, it's like you're saying that someone with 40 sets of suspension all with different camber angles is better that one set with an adjustable camber/caster setup.

You also say that you benefit from 000's of hours of Ford tuning by using the stock ECU. Please explain to me why the stock EEC-V pisses fuel out the exhaust @ WOT.

A properly tuned engine, with millions spent on tuning combined with 000's of man hours, does not usually run @ 10:1 AFR @ WOT.

Also, ANY ECU that uses a wideband oxy sensor is going to be better than ANY ECU that uses a narrowband oxy sensor.


Re: The suspension analogy. No it's like having one set of suspension that can be adjusted dynamically while you are driving depending on 40 different inputs. - That would be alot better than one setting of camber castor etc that was fixed or varied with only 1 input.

V8 Supercars run motec because it is easy to tune -ie designed to be retuned constantly, it integrates with dataloggers, telemetry, etc. The factory ECU does not have these features. They also do not run the same engines as the road cars.

The factory ECU calibration is the result of a lot of testing. it pisses fuel out of the engine at WOT because over a 250,00Km drive engine durability cycle perhaps towing a trailer on a hot day with crap fuel that is what is needed to ensure the durability of the engine. Yes you can re-tune that for more power, but you will reduce your relability. This may never be an issue if your not driving at 200km/h in the northan territory on a 45 deg day with a trailer but if you did you might be stuffed.
The level of detail tuning is astonishing. How much torque reduction does your ecu give on gearshifts? How much different do you set the accell enrichment in 1st gear as apposed to 4th gear? or 5 deg as apposed to 40 deg engine temp? And will any aftermarket tuner run a durability to make sure that 99.9% of all cars with all sorts of drivers will NEVER have a problem with their tune, Not likely.

The beauty of the factory ECU is that you can make changes to the main table to get the AFR's that give you maximum power ( accepting the reliability tradeoff) And keep all the other little parameters that make the car driveable, cold start etc. as factory.

You should still tune the Ford ecu with a wideband O2 sensor (pref on a dyno). Most wideband O2's are not designed to remain in the car permantly. I am pretty sure (given the above) that FORD would have measured the AFR's while tuning. (plus a hell of a lot else).

 

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Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 8:58 am 
Getting Side Ways
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unclewoja wrote:
Spork wrote:
I would imagine that the factory ecu, even one 10 years old will be so far in front of aftermarket stuff it's not funny. And whatever it has will be more than sufficient to tune your car - it was designed for it! Also you get the benefit of 1000's of hours of factory tuning free! Insead of tuning from scratch with your MS.

I had a peek inside the software for a BA ecu, there are over 40 3D tables and 100 setup parameters just for the Auto transmisssion. -Compare that to a $3500 Motec M800 with 1 table.
Obviously the M800 is more biased for engine stuff but you get the point.


With all due respect Spork, the V8 supercars run Motec. If the Ford factory ECU was so great, wouldn't they run that?

You seem to be missing the point of an after market ECU. From what I've read of your posts, it's like you're saying that someone with 40 sets of suspension all with different camber angles is better that one set with an adjustable camber/caster setup.

You also say that you benefit from 000's of hours of Ford tuning by using the stock ECU. Please explain to me why the stock EEC-V pisses fuel out the exhaust @ WOT.

A properly tuned engine, with millions spent on tuning combined with 000's of man hours, does not usually run @ 10:1 AFR @ WOT.

Also, ANY ECU that uses a wideband oxy sensor is going to be better than ANY ECU that uses a narrowband oxy sensor.


are you for real??
do you realy think that the EEC is not better then a motec. Are you forgeting where the EEC was developed??? if you dont know do some reaserch.

that much fuel at wot is a safty thing it prevents knock cause by bad fuel, poor servicing and posible high engine temps. you have to keep in mind that for had to tune for the lowest commen denominator (ie. the s**t most stupid person that might own/drive the car) and so things like overly rich WOT had to be done.

perhaps take a look inside one befor speaking up against it.

i mean really motec with 24x24 8860 96x32 MS 12x12
who are these companies trying to fool oh sorry

 

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Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 5:20 am 
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what sorta table size does the ef ecu have eecv tell us how good it is so we have as much an idea as you, cos f**k it would be much easier to tune standard ecu .

 

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Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 5:32 am 
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I don't know I haven't seen the software. Athough after doing a google search EECIV tables are usually made up of lots of little tables that work together.
Anyway I would assume that whatever they are they are adaquate.

 

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Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 5:59 am 
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Spork wrote:
I don't know I haven't seen the software. Athough after doing a google search EECIV tables are usually made up of lots of little tables that work together.
Anyway I would assume that whatever they are they are adaquate.


enough for a turbo wats the timing like on them is it able to be tuned right what are the steps in rpm that the fuel and spark are updated or changed at least with out aftermarkets we are told this s**t, i tried finging ifo i cant its a pain in the a** .

all we can do is wait and see

 

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Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2005 9:23 pm 
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sickd wrote:
Spork wrote:
I don't know I haven't seen the software. Athough after doing a google search EECIV tables are usually made up of lots of little tables that work together.
Anyway I would assume that whatever they are they are adaquate.


enough for a turbo wats the timing like on them is it able to be tuned right what are the steps in rpm that the fuel and spark are updated or changed at least with out aftermarkets we are told this s**t, i tried finging ifo i cant its a pain in the a** .

all we can do is wait and see
.

dont be lazy go do some research

 

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Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2005 9:51 pm 
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20mins of looking around find you alot of info.


ENGINE_DISPLACEMENT 301.082 # Engine Displacement
Defines the cubic inch displacement of the engine. This parameter us important because is defines how load is calculated. The VE(Load) is calculated by the airflow, the RPM and the ENGINE_DISPLACEMENT. Engine_displacement/(Airflow/RPM) = VE(load)

Increasing ENGINE_DISPLACEMENT typically causes increased ignition advance and leaner mixtures. This parameter is closely coupled with the MAF_FUNCTION. Double this value, and you halve the calculated load value -- that means leaner fuel mixtures and more timing. Be careful here!


LOW_INJECTOR_SLOPE 26.0995 # Injector slope lb./hr
This parameters compensates for the physical limitations of a particular fuel injector for unusually small pulsewidths (<~4ms). In general, real life fuel injectors are sloppy when the commanded pulsewidth is close to the duration of the opening and closing event time for the injector solenoid. Typical injectors take about 1 ms to open and 1 ms to close. That is a total open/close event duration of 2 ms. When the command pulsewidth is in this low-pulsewidth range (<~4 ms), the real-life fuel delivery is not linear to the rated full flow injector delivery rate. The LOW_INJECTOR_SLOPE is a fudge-factor that accounts for this deviation.

Injector pulsewidths are lowest when the RPM is high, and the throttle is closed. Idle pulsewidths are in the 2-4ms range. Larger injectors decrease all pulsewidths in direct proportion to the size increase. Double the injector size, halve the pulsewidths for any given airflow.


HIGH_INJECTOR_SLOPE(ZA0-series)INJECTOR_SIZE(all others
The fully-open fuel delivery rate in pounds(mass)/Hour, at 45 psi, of the fuel injector.


INJ_DELAY 0 # Global injector delay (crank deg.)
GLOBAL_ACCEL_MULTIPLIER 0.398438 # Global Accel pump multiplier

FAN_TEMP 220 # Coolant temp for Electric Fan (Deg F)
Fan operation temperature in degrees Fahrenheit.

FAN_ENABLE 0 # Electric Fan control enable(0=no, 1=yes)
1 enables fan operation, 0 disables


LOW_DWELL 0.500008 # Max low speed dwell (off time in ms)
Coil charge time in milliseconds. Don't know what the purpose of this is.


HIGH_DWELL 0.2 # Max high speed dwell (off time in ms)
Coil charge time in milliseconds. Don't know what the purpose of this is.


OPEN_LOOP_FUEL_MULTIPLER 0.996094 # Global open loop fuel multiplier
Across-the-board fuel mixture adjustment when operating in Open Loop mode (non HEGO controlled operation). Numbers less then one richen the mixture (increase fuel delivery) Numbers greater then one lean the mixture (decrease fuel delivery)


EGR_MULTIPLIER 1 # EGR multiplier

This is a gross scaling adjustment for the flow rate of a given EGR valve. Use a number larger then one to proportionately add more recirculated exhaust gas to the intake charge. Numbers less then one reduce the EGR flow.

For example, setting EGR_MULTIPLIER to 0.75 would deliver three fourths the amount of exhaust compared to stock. A setting of 1.5 would deliver 1 and a half times the EGR flow. Don't know why you would use this, but its fun to change the values and log EVP sensor output (pin 27).


EGR_TYPE 0 # EGR type (0=sonic, 1-PFE, 2=none)
Set to 2(none) to remove the EGR related error codes for a removed or non-functioning EGR. The effect on fuel mixture and ignition timing is unknown -- probably stays exactly the same.

The Purge canister solenoid still works when the Thermactor and EGR are set to none. The Purge Canister solenoid opens at off throttle, car warm, and running for 5 minutes or so.


SECOND_SPEED_LIMITER_ON

The _ON must be set higher then the _OFF for this function to work. The engine cuts out when the speed on the speedometer reaches the speed set with SECOND_SPEED_LIMITER_ON, the engines starts running after the speed falls off to SECOND_SPEED_LIMITER_OFF


FIRST_SPEED_LIMITER_XXX
Doesn't seem to do anything.
Possibly used on automatic equipped mustangs, or when the car is under/over operating temperature.


HALF_FUEL_REV_LIMIT_ON 8000 # Turn on half-fuel rev limit
HALF_FUEL_REV_LIMIT_OFF 7500 # Turn off half-fuel rev limit
The _ON must be set higher then the _OFF for this function to work. The PCM cuts fuel delivery in half when the engine speed reaches the RPM of the _ON value. Fuel delivery remains cut in half until the engine speed drops below the RPM set in the _OFF speed.


NO_FUEL_RPM 7000 # Max RPM (no fuel)
Cuts all fuel when this RPM is reached. Harsh rev limiter. Avoid its use.


MIN_LOAD_FOR_CLOSED_LOOP 0.00500488 # Minimum load for CL control
?


TIME_AT_HIGH_LOAD_BEFORE_OPEN_LOOP 2 # Time at high load to force OL (sec)

The TIME_AT_HIGH_LOAD_BEFORE_OPEN_LOOP is the numbers of seconds that the car will stay in closed loop (HEGO fuel control) when it detects a high load demand (anything over about 1/3 throttle). A 0 works here also.


THERMACTOR_PRESENT 1 # Thermactor present (0-no, 1-yes)
Set to 0 to remove the Thermactor related error codes for a removed air pump belt or non-functioning air-diverter/air-bypass valves or their associated solenoids.


NUMBER_OF_HEGOS 2 # Number of HEGO's
Set to zero to force Open Loop fuel delivery operation?


MIN_ECT_FOR_FUEL_SHUTOFF 140 # Min ECT for decel fuel shutoff (Deg F)
MIN_RPM_FOR_FUEL_SHUTOFF 150 # Min RPM for decel fuel shutoff (Deg F)
MIN_ACT_FOR_ADAPTIVE_CONTROL 100 # Min ACT for Adaptive Control (Deg F)
MAX_ACT_FOR_ADAPTIVE_CONTROL 200 # Max ACT for Adaptive Control (Deg F)
?Does Anyone use these? The Cobra (X3Z) changes these values from the A9L, but I don't know why?


MAF_FUNCTION # Mass Air Transfer Function
( 15.9998, 835.509 ) ( 4.76807, 835.509 ) ( 4.44312, 695.465 )
( 4.177, 595.977 ) ( 3.88599, 499.658 ) ( 3.54395, 399.219 )
( 3.35498, 347.574 ) ( 3.14893, 295.612 ) ( 2.90991, 243.334 )
( 2.69409, 201.828 ) ( 2.58203, 182.5 ) ( 2.44995, 161.272 )
( 2.31592, 142.261 ) ( 2.15405, 120.083 ) ( 1.98901, 100.122 )
( 1.88989, 90.2996 ) ( 1.80298, 82.3786 ) ( 1.69092, 72.8734 )
( 1.57397, 62.4176 ) ( 1.46802, 54.1798 ) ( 1.32104, 44.6745 )
( 1.18188, 36.7535 ) ( 1.09106, 32.6346 ) ( 0.884033, 23.7631 )
( 0.75, 18.6936 ) ( 0.571045, 13.6242 ) ( 0, 13.6242 )
( 0, 13.6242 ) ( 0, 13.6242 ) ( 0, 13.6242 )


The x value is the Voltage on the MAF sig line. The y coordinate is the Kg/Hr flow rate. This allows you to use the data provided by Pro M (Best Products Inc.)

The following functions can be used to estimate flow data for various injector calibrations. V is the voltage read between the MAF sig (pin 50) and MAF return (pin 9). ** means "raised to the power of".

Calibration Flow equation (Kg/hr)
19 lb/hr Flow = 1.4925(1.384+V)**3.5.
24 lb/hr Flow = 1.990(1.384+V)**3.5.
36 lb/hr Flow = 2.85(1.384+V)**3.5.


WOT_ADVANCE_VS_RPM # WOT spark Advance vs. RPM
( 16383.8, 26 ) ( 5000, 26 ) ( 3500, 22 )
( 2600, 22.5 ) ( 2150, 21.5 ) ( 1800, 18.5 )
( 1000, 8 ) ( 0, 8 )
The x coordinate is the RPM. The y coordinate is the ignition advance. This is the same advance that you would read off the crankshaft timing marks with a timing light -- the initial timing is included.


ACCELERATOR_PUMP_VS_TP_VOLTAGE # Accelerator Enrichment Multiplier vs. TP voltage
( 4.98047, 0 ) ( 4.16016, 0 ) ( 2.20703, 0.296875 )
( 0.976562, 0.953125 ) ( 0, 1 )
The x coordinate is the TP Voltage, the y coordinate is the enrichment multiplier.


WOT_FUEL_MULTIPLIER_VS_RPM # WOT Fuel Multiplier vs. RPM
( 16383.8, 0.945312 ) ( 6000, 0.945312 ) ( 4400, 0.953125 )
( 3800, 0.976562 ) ( 3200, 0.945312 ) ( 2400, 0.96875 )
( 1600, 0.90625 ) ( 0, 1 )

The WOT_FUEL_MULTIPLIER_VS_RPM function richens the mixture with numbers less then one. Numbers greater then on lean the mixture.


ACCELERATOR_PUMP_FUEL_TABLE # Accelerator Enrichment Fuel Table(LB/min)
Throttle Rate (Deg/Sec)
ECT 16 32 48 64 80 96 112 128
-30 21 23 26 28 31 34 39 56
0 12 14 16 18 26 30 38 55
30 5 8 10 12 16.5 21 27 45
60 4 5 6 8 12.5 17 25.5 34
90 2 2 3 4.5 8 12.5 18 29
120 1.5 1.5 2 3 4.5 8 12 20
150 1.5 1.5 2 3 4.5 8 12 18


STARTUP_FUEL_TABLE # Startup Fuel Table (A/F ratio)
ECT
Seconds -30 0 30 60 90 120 150 180 210 240
0 3.375 4.125 3 1.875 1.875 1.875 1.875 1.375 1.875 3.375
4 2.875 3.625 2.625 1.875 1.875 1.875 1.875 1.625 1.875 2.875
8 2.75 2.75 2.375 1.875 1.875 1.875 1.875 1.5 1.875 2.75
12 2.25 2.125 2.125 1.875 1.875 1.875 1.875 1.25 1.875 2.25
16 1.625 1.625 1.5 1.375 1.25 1.375 1.375 1.125 1.375 1.625
20 1.25 1.5 1.125 1 1 1.25 1.25 0.875 1 1.25
24 1 1.25 0.875 0.5 0.375 0.875 0.875 0.25 0.5 1
28 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

The STARTUP_FUEL_TABLE uses larger numbers to richen the mixture.


BASE_FUEL_TABLE # Base Fuel Table (A/F ratio)(Load vs ECT)
ECT
Load (VE) -30 0 30 60 90 120 150 180 210 240
0.08 (8%) 17.875 17.875 17.675 17.25 16.625 16.375 16 15.25 15.25 15.25
0.15 (15%) 17.625 17.625 17 16.625 16.5 16.375 16 15.25 15.25 15.25
0.27 (27%) 14.125 14.25 14.25 14.375 14.5 14.75 14.75 15.25 15.25 14.375
0.40 (40%) 13.625 14.375 14.375 14.375 14.875 15.25 15.25 16 16 14.75
0.55 (55%) 12.75 13.875 14.25 14.375 14.875 14.875 15.25 16 16 15
0.70 (70% 12.125 12.125 13.5 13.5 13.875 14.375 14.125 14.25 13.625 13.625
0.80 (80%) 11.25 11.25 12.75 12.75 13.125 13.5 13.75 13.75 13.625 13.5
0.90 (90%) 10.5 10.5 12.5 12.5 12.75 13.125 13.5 13.5 13.5 13.5


BASE_SPARK_TABLE # Base Spark Table (Deg BTDC)(Load vs RPM)
RPM
Load (VE) 500 700 900 1100 1300 1500 2000 2500 3000 4000
0.05 (5%) 28 28 28 31 33 34 34 34 34 34
0.10 (10% 28 28 28 31 33 34 34 34 28 28
0.20 (20%) 28 28 33 36 36 37 38 38 28 28
0.30 (30%) 25 26 28 29 32 32 38 40 28 28
0.40 (40%) 20 21 25 28 31 32 33 34 28 28
0.50 (50%) 15 15 16 16 18 20 23 27 27 27
0.60 (60%) 8 10 10 11 13 15 21 21 21 21
0.75 (75%) 8 8 9 10 12 14 18 21 21 21


ALTITUDE_BASE_SPARK_TABLE # Altitude base spark table.

RPM
Load (VE) 500 700 900 1100 1300 1500 2000 2500 3000 4000
0.05 (5%) 28 28 28 31 33 34 34 34 34 34
0.10 (10% 28 28 28 32 34 35 35 34 28 28
0.20 (20%) 28 28 33 37 37 38 38 38 28 28
0.30 (30%) 25 26 30 37 38 36 36 38 28 28
0.40 (40%) 20 21 25 32 34 34 33 32 28 28
0.50 (50%) 15 16 16 16 18 20 26 27 27 27
0.60 (60%) 8 8 9 10 11 14 21 21 21 21
0.75 (75%) 8 8 9 10 11 13 21 21 21 21


LIMP_MODE_SPARK_TABLE # Limp Mode Spark Table (Deg BTDC)(Load vs RPM)

RPM
Load (VE) 500 700 900 1100 1300 1500 2000 2500 3000 4000
0.05 (5%) 28 28 28 31 33 34 34 34 34 34
0.10 (10% 28 28 28 31 33 34 34 34 34 34
0.20 (20%) 25 26 30.5 33.5 35 36.5 38 38 38 38
0.30 (30%) 20 21 20 24 31 32 33 33 33 33
0.40 (40%) 14 14 14 14 16 21 27 27 27 27
0.50 (50%) 8 9 10 11 13 17 22 22 22 22
0.60 (60%) 6.5 8 9 10 12 14 18 18 18 18
0.75 (75%) 6.5 6.5 9 10 12 14 18 18 18 18


INJECTOR_OUTPUT_PORT # Injector Output Port Table

Cylinder
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
Port 0 0 0 0 2 2 2 2


WOT_ADVANCE_VS_ECT #
( 254, -4 ) ( 246, -4 ) ( 236, -2 )
( 200, 0 ) ( 120, 0 ) ( 86, 3 )
( -256, 3 )
The x coordinate is the ECT, the y coordinate is the timing in degrees that is added to the current timing to account for changes in engine coolant temperature. This function is only used at WOT -- defined by the WOT_VOLTAGE.


WOT_ADVANCE_VS_ACT #
( 254, -6 ) ( 240, -6 ) ( 150, 0 )
( -256, 0 ) ( -256, 0 ) ( -256, 0 )
This function is only active during WOT operation node. The x coordinate is the ECT in farenheit, the y-coordinate is the amount of ignition advance that is added (or subtracted if the number is negative) to the overall ignition advance.


OL_FUEL_MULTIPLIER_VS_ACT #
( 254, 1 ) ( 76, 1 ) ( 0, 0.8125 )
( -40, 0.640625 ) ( -256, 0.640625 ) ( -256, 0.640625 )
This function is only active during OL operation node. Open Loop operation occurs at throttle postions of greater then one third throttle. The x coordinate is the ECT in farenheit, the y-coordinate is fuel multiplier. Multipliers lower then one richen the mixture(more fuel), numbers greater then one lean the mixture (less fuel).


PT_ADVANCE_VS_ACT #
( 254, -2 ) ( 190, -2 ) ( 160, 0 )
( -256, 0 ) ( -256, 0 )
This function is only active during Part Throttle (not WOT) operation node. The x coordinate is the ECT in farenheit, the y-coordinate is the amount of ignition advance that is added (or subtracted if the number is negative) to the overall ignition advance.


ADVANCE_VS_BP #
( 31.875, 0 ) ( 27.75, 0 ) ( 26.5, 4 )
( 23.5, 4 ) ( 0, 12 )
The x coordinate is the barometric pressure in inches of mercury, the y-coordinate is the amount of ignition advance that is added (or subtracted if the number is negative) to the overall ignition advance.


ADVANCE_RATE_VS_RPM #
( 8160, 1 ) ( 4000, 1 ) ( 3008, 1.5 )
( 992, 2 ) ( 0, 2 ) ( 0, 2 )
The predicted advance rate between table lookups? Higher numbers here give a noticable increase in throttle response. Especially on modified cars with camshafts and high stall converters.


MIN_LOW_SPEED_DWELL #
( 4095.94, 0.00279999 ) ( 15, 0.00279999 ) ( 14, 0.00300027 )
( 12, 0.00399972 ) ( 10, 0.00449944 ) ( 0, 0.00449944 )


MIN_HIGH_SPEED_DWELL #
( 4095.94, 0.00300027 ) ( 15, 0.00300027 ) ( 13, 0.00334931 )
( 12, 0.00370026 ) ( 10, 0.00499917 ) ( 0, 0.00499917 )


DASHPOT_CLIP #
( 16383.8, 1.6001 ) ( 2000, 1.6001 ) ( 1500, 1 )
( 500, 0.120117 ) ( 0, 0.120117 )


SEA_LEVEL_LUGGING_OL_FUEL_MULTIPLIER #
( 16383.8, 1 ) ( 1500, 1 ) ( 1200, 1.20312 )
( 750, 1.20312 ) ( 650, 1 ) ( 0, 1 )


ALTITUDE_LUGGING_OL_FUEL_MULTIPLIER #
( 16383.8, 1 ) ( 0, 1 ) ( 0, 1 )
( 0, 1 ) ( 0, 1 )


INJECTOR_OFFSET_VS_BATTERY_VOLTAGE #
( 15.9375, 0.90625 ) ( 14, 0.90625 ) ( 13, 1 )
( 12, 1.15625 ) ( 11, 1.40625 ) ( 10, 1.6875 )
( 9, 2.03125 ) ( 8, 2.59375 ) ( 7, 3.53125 )
( 6, 5.53125 ) ( 5.5, 7.5 ) ( 0, 7.5 )


OL_FUEL_MULTIPLIER_VS_RPM #
( 16383.8, 0 ) ( 1100, 0 ) ( 1075, 1 )
( 0, 1 ) ( 0, 1 ) ( 0, 1 )


DASHPOT_DECREMENT_RATE #
( 15.9998, 0.0625 ) ( 0.75, 0.0625 ) ( 0.649902, 0.0449219 )
( 0.449951, 0.00708008) ( 0.350098, 0.00195312 ) ( 0.0620117, 0.00292969 )
( 0, 0.00341797 )


INJECTOR_TIMING_TABLE # Injector timing table Crank degrees
RPM
Load (VE) 500 700 900 1100 1300 1500 2000 2500 3000 4000
0.05 (5%) 352 352 352 352 352 352 352 352 352 352
0.10 (10% 352 352 352 352 352 352 352 352 352 352
0.20 (20%) 352 352 352 352 352 352 352 352 352 352
0.30 (30%) 352 352 352 352 352 352 352 352 352 352
0.40 (40%) 352 352 352 352 352 380 400 400 400 400
0.50 (50%) 380 380 380 380 380 380 420 420 464 464
0.60 (60%) 420 420 420 420 420 420 420 464 464 464
0.75 (75%) 420 420 420 420 420 420 420 464 464 464


INJECTOR_FIRING_ORDER # Injector firing order

1 3 7 2 6 5 4 8


EXHAUST_PULSE_DELAY # in Engine Revolutions
This is the amount of time in engine revolutions that it takes the exhaust charge to reach the oxygen sensor after ignition. Increase this value to improve idle on cars with long tube headers.

Here is a more specific definition contributed from a someone in the EEC-EFI mailing list: "EXHAUST_PULSE_DELAY is the time between when the injector
pulse width is calculated in the EEC (*not* when the injector
is fired), to when that pulse ends up reliably sensed at the HEGO
sensor. This is used to predict when the O2 signal will cross so
it can get the correct amplitude and bias results."

From an EEC Tuner user point of view, longer headers mean larger values in the table. Conceivably, changing the injector timing table could also have any effect here (I would presume only a negligible one though < 1).

RPM
Load (VE) 700 900 1950 3000
0.05 (5%) 10 10 10 10
0.10 (10% 10 10 10 10
0.20 (20%) 10 10 10 10
0.30 (30%) 10 10 10 10
0.40 (40%) 10 10 10 10
0.50 (50%) 10 10 10 10
0.60 (60%) 10 10 10 10
0.75 (75%) 10 10 10 10



HEGO_AMPLITUDE
Description taken from an EEC-EFI mailing list contributor:
" HEGO_AMPLITUDE is the desired amplitude of the O2 dither signal. This is modified primarily for emissions - it is set up to optimize the catalytic converter performance. A certain minimum is required to maintain the system in a limit cycle oscillation."

RPM
Load (VE) 700 900 1950 3000
0.05 (5%) 0.0332031 0.0332031 0.0332031 0.0332031
0.10 (10% 0.0332031 0.0332031 0.0332031 0.0332031
0.20 (20%) 0.0332031 0.0332031 0.0332031 0.0332031
0.30 (30%) 0.0332031 0.0332031 0.0332031 0.0332031
0.40 (40%) 0.0332031 0.0332031 0.0332031 0.0332031
0.50 (50%) 0.0332031 0.0332031 0.0332031 0.0332031
0.60 (60%) 0.0332031 0.0332031 0.0332031 0.0332031
0.75 (75%) 0.0332031 0.0332031 0.0332031 0.0332031


HEGO_BIAS

Description taken from an EEC-EFI mailing list contributor:
"The HEGO_BIAS allows the averaged air-fuel ratio to be shifted slightly rich or slightly lean. This makes virtually no difference in power but it has a huge impact on emissions. This is used to adjust the CO-HC vs NOx balance on the emissions test cycle. A rich mixture will lower NOx but raise CO, a lean mixture will do the opposite."

RPM
Load (VE) 700 900 1950 3000
0.05 (5%) 0 0.00683594 0.00683594 0.00683594
0.10 (10% 0 0.00195312 0.00195312 0.00195312
0.20 (20%) 0 0 0 0
0.30 (30%) 0 0.123047 0.123047 0.123047
0.40 (40%) 0 0.123047 0.123047 0.123047
0.50 (50%) 0.123047 0.121094 0.121094 0.121094
0.60 (60%) 0.123047 0.119141 0.119141 0.119141
0.75 (75%) 0.117188 0.117188 0.117188 0.117188


END

 

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Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2005 9:55 pm 
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show me an after market ECU that can doo all of that. better yet show me one that can it and only cost the 700 to $1000 that the tunner is likly to cost.

by the way all of that is only a small portion of what i found and only some of the things the eec does and takes into acount

 

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Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2005 10:36 pm 
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Spork wrote:
slycruza wrote:
i have a autronic sm2 computer which i paid 2600 for the computer and 150 for the new loom and now i am waiting for someone to put it in for me... another grand.... so it works out pretty exspensive!!! but they guy that is goin to tune it tunes race cars as well with the autronic and motec so he know what his doin :)


Autronic is serious stuff. You haven't tried installing some/all of it yourself? $1000 for install sounds like alot how many hours is it going to take them?

Let me know how it goes with the autotune thing! Also if you hook up traction control (sounds like you'll need it with that setup!) it would be interesting to hear how that goes too!

Good point with the tuning. A well tuned stinger will still outperform a poorly tuned motec so make sure you factor in the $$$ for tuning. What are the going rates?



i have a Autronic ECU in my race car.
i wired it up myself in a few hours, its not that hard. although i sent it to JPC for the tuning.
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Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2005 6:17 pm 
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tickfor_6: I found that info too. I think it's from the EECIV from a V8 Mustang.
EECV is supposed to be alot more advanced and for I6 it uses a MAP so will have some different tables to control that.
Really I see only 2 disadvantages with the standard ECU

1) No Data logging. -Not a problem for me I use the vehicle datalogger!
2) No Realtime tuning - Will make dyno tuning slow. But no worse than a Stinger and you already have a REALLY good basemap.

 

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Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2005 7:50 pm 
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yeah that one is for the A9L mustang eecIV

it gives a good idea of what to expect when we get the ability to tune our own aussie EECs

and it does show just how lacking the aftermarket ECUs are

 

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Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2005 8:26 pm 
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thats good info thanks and i tried looking for that stuff for half hour and count not find it thanks

well i will be sold on the standard computer tuner if they can make it to tune in real time it would be awsome

 

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Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 9:57 pm 
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unclewoja wrote:
I'd like to post a bit about Megasquirt-II if I may:

MS-II. Cost approx $250-$300, extra looms/cables - DIY

Pros: Very cheap, 12x12 3D fuel and spark tables, (capability to go up to 24x24) user definable RPM/MAP points, Alpha-N (throttle) or MAP tuning, 24Mhz processor, wideband support, can be configured to use any temp sensor, datalogging, off-line auto-tuning, realtime tuning, 3 loadbands for wideband closed loop, stepper motor control, enormous support, capable for tuning up to 250kPa (21 Psi boost), full set of compensation tools (battery voltage comp, barometric comp, either at start-up or continuous, air temp, coolant temp) Dual table for fuel and spark (i.e. you can run two sets of injectors used at different stages, say 1 set used below 3000RPM and one set used above 3000RPM) Very stable windows, unix and linux tuning software, rev limiter, traction control.

Cons: DIY construction takes time and is not suited to a lot of people, banked injection, traction control is crude at this stage and analyses engine RPM to determine wheel spin.



The MSII is a versitile low cost solution (for those with electronic construction experience) with some tuning experience. It is very adaptable.

An alternative woth considering would be the TWEECER RT - http://www.tweecer.com/ It is available with logging capability, and interfaces to a number of original Ford ECU's, but has the ability fo modify the fuel & spark mappings (plus a bunch of other stuff).

Dave
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Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 8:18 am 
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Just not many EEC's here Dave, unfortunately :(
Mainly EB-ED V8's, however supposedly a select few 6 cylinder EEC's are supported.

 

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Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 10:16 pm 
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i think there should be a new update to this thread.

alot has changed lately and most of the ECUs you don't have to pay extra for looms and the like.

 

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