Fordmods Logo

BA-BF-SX-SY - Scantool Fun 

 

Page 3 of 44 [ 650 posts ] Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 ... 44  Next

 
Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 4:48 am 
Fordmods Newbie
Offline

Posts: 3

Joined: 31st Mar 2007

Location: canton
NSW, Australia

Neo_nick wrote:
Hi Luke,
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Electronic-vehic ... dZViewItem
thats the one i bought - except mine was cheaper. My reason for going for this was more so for Clearing dtcs after my flash tune - it also has the dtc stored in the unit so no reading a manual to find the dtc code - However it doesnt appear to work on my BA - i believe wiring will be llightly different - Maybe its proprietry wiring for ford?


Hi Neo_nick,

I noticed that the tool you linked to does not seem to support the CAN protocol, I think the reason it does not work with your BA is because the BA uses the CAN protocol so I doubt that you will be able to use this tool with the BA, I could be mistaken but it seems that the scantool supports everything but the CAN protocol

Thanks
Paul
Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 10:00 am 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Posts: 1123

Joined: 7th Nov 2005

Location: Newcastle
NSW, Australia

The data on that product is confusing. While only listing the 4 x protocols excluding CAN, he mentions further down that it supports the CAN protocol for the BA/BF Falcon. So it either does or it does not support CAN. If it doesn't, then he's issued a false advertisement.

It DOES support the ISO9141 bus, but like I mentioned above, only ABS/TCM, PAM and RCM are on that bus.

The J1962 standard is very clear on which pins are supposed to be CAN. If it is an OBDII compliant device there's not much room for ambiguity. The only ambiguity comes with so called 'OBD1.5' devices that use OBDI onboard, but have an OBDII connector - which was the case on some GM cars from around 1995.

The CAN support is something that needs to be clarified because the DTC's you want to clear are on the PCM - which is on the CAN Bus. If it does not do CAN, and the eBay advertisement says it does, then you have very good grounds to return it and get your money back during his returns period on that item, or submit a dispute.


Lukeyson
Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 2:30 pm 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Age: 32

Posts: 11791

Joined: 5th Nov 2004

Gallery: 13 images

Ride: Holden VF Calais / NL FBT

Location: SE Melb
VIC, Australia

Hi Mitch - I might have to have alook at your products to do the job then!

 

_________________

Nicko

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 2:33 pm 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Posts: 1123

Joined: 7th Nov 2005

Location: Newcastle
NSW, Australia

HEX Values

I thought I'd do a quick write-up on hex.

Generally, any value you see relating to OBDII communications is represented in HEX. Even when not explicitly stated, in many cases the numbers will be HEX anyway. Hex numbers are written in a few ways, but of note you find a Hex value as either $01 or 0x01.

In the decimal numbering system, we have 10 digits (not so coincidentally, the same number of fingers and thumbs on a human being). So therefore the digits are 0123456789.

For binary we only have 2 digits - to represent on and off - and these are just 01.

Hexadecimal, however, uses 16 digits. They are 0123456789ABCDEF.

So 10 in decimal is decimal 10 (Hang with me here). 10 in Binary is Decimal 2. And 10 in Hexadecimal is Decimal 16.

Hexadecimal is great for use with computers, because it works well with binary, and dramatically reduces the number of individual digits needed to represent larger numbers. For example, the binary digits 1111 are equivalent to the Decimal value of 15, but in Hex it is F.

So why does Hex work well with Binary? Well each individual Hex number is made up of 4 x Binary Numbers known as 'bits'. 4 Bits are also known as a 'Nibble' - just a bit of trivia there. But 2 x Nibbles make a 'Byte' - and if anyone has even remote knowledge of computers the term 'Byte' will be familiar - as a value that is used to measure a volume of information. 'Bytes' are used to measured stored Data for example (eg 1 x Mega Byte = 1 000 000 Bytes - or 1 048 756 Bytes for the binary pedantic).

A single Byte, however, is now easily represented by 2 x Hex numbers, which makes life a whole lot easier for being able to display heaps of digits on asmall screen.

So now we have the basics, how do we convert from Hex to Decimal to Binary easily? Well I could go into the math, but for me, good old Windows Calculator is all I ever use and all I ever intend to use.

Start - Programs - Accessories - Calculator. Click 'View' and make sure the 'Scientific' radio button is selected. You'll notice that Calculator now grows to have a whole lot more buttons.

To convert from Hex to Decimal - do the following.

(1) Select the 'Hex' Radio button.
(2) Enter the inital 'Hex' value.
(3) Select the 'Decimal' Radio button

Done. And you can do this to convert between any of the 4 x listed number types - although I've yet to find any meaningful use of 'Oct'.

This kind of theory is a requirement for much of what I'll talk about later.

For example, when I open or close a door on my car, a particular 'bit' changes from a 0 to a 1 in the first byte of CAN broadcast $403.

Now lets suppose at the start the HEX values I saw in the first byte of broadcast $403 message was 00. Converting to Binary this is of course 00000000. Now say this door is the Rear Right door, so it will represent the 3rd bit from the left. When the door is open the Binary value changes from 00000000 to 00100000. If I convert this to Hex, what I will see on my scantool is that the original Hex value changes from 00 to 20.

If you're unfamiliar with Binary/hex and conversions to decimal, then I suggest you simply get very familiar with Windows Calculator until you get used to it.

Because without it I'll lose you from here on.....


Lukeyson

Last edited by Lukeyson on Sun Apr 01, 2007 4:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 2:42 pm 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Posts: 1123

Joined: 7th Nov 2005

Location: Newcastle
NSW, Australia

Neo_nick wrote:
Hi Mitch - I might have to have alook at your products to do the job then!


Keep in mind that the tool I bought, and the tool Mich is talking about, are 'OBDII to RS232' or 'OBDII to USB' scantools. This then implies you need a PC to connect to them.

The tool you provided a link to was stand-alone and didn't need a PC.

I didn't want you to go ahead on advice without making that bit clear. I have 2 options at home. My old 1GHz Torrent-Box is in the shed, and I run a 10Metre Serial DB9M/DB9F Cable from it to my car. I also have a Notebook supplied with work and a power converter for the cigarette lighter for doing captures while drving.


Lukeyson
Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 6:30 pm 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Age: 32

Posts: 11791

Joined: 5th Nov 2004

Gallery: 13 images

Ride: Holden VF Calais / NL FBT

Location: SE Melb
VIC, Australia

Yeah no problems lukey - i gathered that when i had a look at the site - i have a spare s**t lappy here that should do the job!

 

_________________

Nicko

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 9:17 pm 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Posts: 1123

Joined: 7th Nov 2005

Location: Newcastle
NSW, Australia

Discovery update April 1, 2007:

Edited April 6 2007 to include additional messages and SX Territory Ghia bits.


In terms of the 'general tech article' posts, this is a little out of sequence. But I was keen to share what I've discovered so far.

I haven't had a chance to test out all of the Ford Enhanced PIDs I've been given. Just so you know. I did test 2 - and while one worked, the other came back with a 7F error for out of range.

But I have made some progress on the 'Normal' broadcast messages I can sniff on the bus.

By turning on headers and filtering for certain messages, I can see what bits change when I do stuff on the car. The hex values in the list belowe indicate the 'header' I see. CAN 11bit headers aren't so much about source/destination ECU's like they are with J1850 or 29 bit CAN, and more about 'functional' addressing. One of my tech articles coming up will talk more about CAN 11 bit headers. For now, the headers consist of 3 x Hex nibbles to make up 12 bytes, of which the leftmost bit (aka the most significant bit) is ignored.

In summary, this is what I've found so far regarding Broadcast messages on the Ba Falcon CAN Bus - all of this is from KOEO for the moment. (KOEO = Key On Engine Off, YTFO = Yet To Figure Out):

$070 From ESP YAW Sensor?
$075 From ESP YAW Sensor?
$080 From ESP Steering Sensor, Steering Position, Rate of Change, Counter
$200 From PCM
$500 From IC - Avg Speed, Avg L/100/HR, Run Time
$403 From BEM - Door Open, Boot Open, Rear Demist, Ign On
$207 From PCM - RPM, Throttle Position (May also get road speed?)
$307 From ICC - HVAC Buttons for both MCC and ACC, A/C Temp and Blower Speed. (MCC)
$210 From ABS
$623 From PCM
$427 From PCM - Cruise Ctrl on/off, Ign Switch, Startup Displays, Maybe ABS Wheel Sensors
$230 From PCM
$437 From IC - Handbrake, Park Lights, Battery Voltage, Display Illumination Level incl Night Mode
$640 From PCM
$353 From HIM
$553 From IC - Range, L/HR/100, Odometer
$4B0 From ABS
$6F6 From PCM - but has constantly rotating bitwise patterns. Looks like it maybe Smartshield messaging.


My next test will be KOER (Key On Engine Running) at idle after 2 minutes to see what values change. I then plan on doing another KOER test whilst roughly at 2000rpm, and finally a KOEO test after the car has been stopped - so it is still warm.

Later on I'll collect more statistics while mobile, such as capturing values before/after refuelling, or removing some connectors to see what blank out and/or what DTC's get triggered (my DTC list above is all unconfirmed by the way - but should still be useful).

THEN I get to do all the same things again with the SX Ghia to see what extra messages Auto Climate Control generate as opposed to MCC.


Lukeyson

Last edited by Lukeyson on Sat Jun 28, 2008 12:05 am, edited 2 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 1:37 pm 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Age: 32

Posts: 11791

Joined: 5th Nov 2004

Gallery: 13 images

Ride: Holden VF Calais / NL FBT

Location: SE Melb
VIC, Australia

interesting read lukey!
Wonder if we can scame the pds software from ford. If we could copy the rom of there pds you could install it on to another ipaw and you would have a complete pds! all you need is teh data cable which you can get obd plugs for now!

 

_________________

Nicko

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 1:59 pm 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Posts: 1123

Joined: 7th Nov 2005

Location: Newcastle
NSW, Australia

Funny you should mention that right about now.

Stay tuned.

Are you talking about this setup ( http://www.motorcraftservice.com/vdirs/ ... nuIndex1=8 )?

Or are you referring to the tool you mentioned you were getting acces to?


Lukeyson

Last edited by Lukeyson on Mon Apr 02, 2007 8:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 7:54 pm 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Age: 32

Posts: 11791

Joined: 5th Nov 2004

Gallery: 13 images

Ride: Holden VF Calais / NL FBT

Location: SE Melb
VIC, Australia

the pds is a smaller version of the WDS -its basically a ipaq pda with the wds software.

Might be a cheaper way out to get access to one and copy the rom.

BTW i sent that cd to you today - Sorry about delay - hope it helps!

 

_________________

Nicko

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 7:56 pm 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Age: 32

Posts: 11791

Joined: 5th Nov 2004

Gallery: 13 images

Ride: Holden VF Calais / NL FBT

Location: SE Melb
VIC, Australia

click on PDS in that link your provided that gives you the brief on it!

 

_________________

Nicko

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 7:58 pm 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Posts: 1123

Joined: 7th Nov 2005

Location: Newcastle
NSW, Australia

Yes, and according to Motorcraft the PDS needs the VCM to communicate to a car. Both the PDS or the IDS (which is a notebook version of the WDS) can use the VCM to talk to a car.

I think the VCM is the expensive bit, because the link in my message above mentions that if you have bought the VCM you get access to the software and a 2 year subscription to updates via the internet.


Lukeyson
Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 8:02 pm 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Age: 32

Posts: 11791

Joined: 5th Nov 2004

Gallery: 13 images

Ride: Holden VF Calais / NL FBT

Location: SE Melb
VIC, Australia

hmm - now to find access to the vcm

 

_________________

Nicko

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 8:06 pm 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Age: 32

Posts: 11791

Joined: 5th Nov 2004

Gallery: 13 images

Ride: Holden VF Calais / NL FBT

Location: SE Melb
VIC, Australia

The VCM sounds like its basically your scantool - if we can find a torrent of the software i wonder if we can use the scantool - The VCM couldnt do anything more than what the obd scantool does!

just found this scantool lukey
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/TekMate- ... 0106QQrdZ1

 

_________________

Nicko

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 8:40 pm 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Posts: 1123

Joined: 7th Nov 2005

Location: Newcastle
NSW, Australia

Nice link.

They mention that it's an ELM based scantool, so it will be the same functions as mine. They talk about the '80 extended sensor' list. This sounds like it's just the sensors listed in J2190, which are the Mode $01 pids from $20 and above - not supported by the BA Falcon.

Have a look for Digimoto on Isohunt. It does 0-60mph and rolling dyno. It also supports all the J2190 PIDS - that I can't read.....

The VCM does look like an OBD2 to 'something' converter tool. I suspect it converts direct to USB to provide full-bandwidth access to CAN.

I'm not sure at this point how you write to devices on a CAN bus. Some other protocols lrequired power on a certain pin to do writes I think (I read that somewhere, but I really have no idea). However I've just come across modes $36 $37 and $38 which look to be bulk read/write modes.

In the notes on that link there is mention of a VMM that is in addition to the VCM. I have yet to figure out what that is.

And I've also just found all the manuals ( http://www.motorcraftservice.com/vdirs/ ... anuals.asp ) and the software ( http://qa.nsapp.fordtechservice.dealerc ... =BB_RETAIL ) for the IDS which is the PC version while the PDS is the PDA version - available for download for free from the Motorcraft website. !!!!???

Suffice to say I'm downloading it now to give it a try!


Lukeyson

Last edited by Lukeyson on Mon Apr 02, 2007 8:51 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:
Sort by  
 Page 3 of 44  [ 650 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 ... 44  Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 10 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

 

 

It is currently Fri Dec 09, 2016 10:32 pm All times are UTC + 11 hours

 

 

(c)2014 Total Web Solutions Australia - Australian Web Hosting and Domain Names