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Base timing adjustment (EL) 

 

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 Post subject: Base timing adjustment (EL)
Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2004 3:48 pm 
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Has anyone tried adjusting the base timing for better performance with premium unleaded?

As far as I can see, it is just a case of turning the distributor (just like my XY :wink: ) as the doover with the hall effect switch in the dizzy is the only crank angle input to the ECU.

Can this be done, has anyone done it?

Dang
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Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2004 4:14 pm 
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Dang,

Your assumptions are correct however there are a few things to note.

The engine/ECU must be in "base timing mode" for the adjustment to be accurate. This is done by putting the engine into diagnostic mode (diagnostic connector near fuses, connect top left pin to bottom left). When the ecu increased idle to around 2000 rpm it will leave timing static.

If you fail to do so, it is impossible to tell how much advance the ECU is running and therefore you will not know what you have set it to.

Either way, the I6 has a knock sensor which will prevent too much advance.

 

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Posted: Wed Nov 17, 2004 3:39 am 
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ive benn mucking around with me EMS.

I find it likes about -37degrees at idle, -44 at cruise and about -27 wot.

 

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Posted: Wed Nov 17, 2004 1:49 pm 
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Playing with your EMS?

Exactly how do you do that?
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Posted: Wed Nov 17, 2004 1:55 pm 
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dang wrote:
Playing with your EMS?

Exactly how do you do that?


John runs an aftermarket engine management system

 

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Posted: Wed Nov 17, 2004 2:08 pm 
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Ahhhhhh....



Tens of dollars for a cop cluster - OK. Hundreds for a custom EMS? Unlikely. Thousands for a supercharger - no chance!

Being married with kids, there is not much spare cash!
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Posted: Wed Nov 17, 2004 8:08 pm 
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dang wrote:
Being married with kids, there is not much spare cash!


I hear ya!

 

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Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2004 3:18 am 
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thats why you play cars first :P

 

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Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2004 5:52 pm 
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SVO XR6 wrote:
thats why you play cars first :P

I learnt a hard lesson there... Had an awesome XH Longreach S ute, bought brand new and "played with" a lot... It was immaculate, nothing ever went into the tray.
Then we had our son, thats okay, I'll just garage the ute and drive the KA laser bomb. Looking at the ute each time I backed the laser out became a joke, so I sold her to buy a sedan to play with. Now, with a family, I don't have the money to play!!!

 

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Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2004 9:20 pm 
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Just mucking around with my EL Fairmont boat, whacked a timing light on it and put it into diag mode.

First thing I noticed is there is only one mark on the harmonic balancer and only one point on the engine to mark where its meant to be.... how the fudge do you accurately set the timing damnit.... The mark visually was about 10 degrees left of the pointer which would indicate a fairly accurate setting.

So I adjusted it to about 15 deg btdc and all of a sudden the engine decided to make about 20-30rwkw more on LPG...... Can't argue with that :)

Put it back to petrol and it pings its tits off, will try Synnergy 8000 tomorrow and give feedback. Fat lot of good the knock sensor does....
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Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 12:57 am 
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Is there any way to adjust the base timing on an EF??
Although I was under the impression the EF/EL could advance their timing automatically to some degree through aid of the knock sensor. I run lpg and premium fuel only so im trying to make the most of it.

 

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Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 2:34 am 
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I believe the EF's you cant but the EL's you can.

And the knock senser has a slow response and only makes minimal changes, unless its a au, then its too much!!!!

 

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Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 10:44 am 
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Bug wrote:
Is there any way to adjust the base timing on an EF??
Although I was under the impression the EF/EL could advance their timing automatically to some degree through aid of the knock sensor. I run lpg and premium fuel only so im trying to make the most of it.


No, yes, yes and no. LOL.

Timing on an EF is controlled by EEC and coilpacks. Can only alter timing by way of changing EEC (unichip etc.) or modifying the cam angle sensor (i think its cam sensor).

EL went back to dizzy. Timing still controlled by EEC but able to adjust base timing as dizzy acts as crank angle sensor.

Knock sensor will retard timing if knock occurs. However timing maps only advance to an extent (i.e. there could be more advance available than EEC allows). Only way to exceed this is by playing with base timing yourself.

 

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Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2004 6:33 pm 
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Crank angle sensor :wink:
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Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2004 12:25 am 
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4.9 EF Futura wrote:
Dang,

Your assumptions are correct however there are a few things to note.

The engine/ECU must be in "base timing mode" for the adjustment to be accurate. This is done by putting the engine into diagnostic mode (diagnostic connector near fuses, connect top left pin to bottom left). When the ecu increased idle to around 2000 rpm it will leave timing static.

If you fail to do so, it is impossible to tell how much advance the ECU is running and therefore you will not know what you have set it to.

Either way, the I6 has a knock sensor which will prevent too much advance.


4.9 careful there, you are wrong.

When you put a v8 into diag mode, the ECU puts the engine into base timing mode straight away. But for an I6 its different.

For an I6, you must wait about a minute or 2 before it will drop into base timing. You can tell when this happens because the engine will appear to almost stall and shudder then pick itself back up. It stays like this for 60 seconds before exiting diag mode.

This is the reason everyone is seeing what they believe is advanced timing when you first check it, cos its not in base timing mode. Wait those 2 mins for it to drop into base timing mode, and you will see the line on the crank line up with the mark on the timing cover. Then go and play. and JFYI - This mark is TDC. EF's and EL's advance their timing from TDC, not 10 degress like the EECIV falcons.
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