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BEWARE BF falcon 6 speed automatic $10000 damage bill 

 

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Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 4:29 am 
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samftr wrote:
well, remember the stupid fault that can happen with ef's something to do with the interior light circuit. either the light blows or the fuse blows and the engine wont start heh. never know with ford... those engineers need slapping :)


thats actually because the BEM controls smart lock, the BEM also controls the dimming/time delay for the interior light circuit.
remove power to the interior lights/BEM and you have no smartlock, not that complex.

it only seems stupid because people say "do you have interior lights"
and when they say no, people tell them to replace the fuse.
Its not the interior lights fault the car isnt starting, just the fact they use the same circuit.
Certainly makes solving the problem easier.

 

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Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 5:01 am 
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[self-deleted]

Last edited by blackjack_original on Fri Jun 06, 2014 9:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 5:03 am 
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YTMONT wrote:
can you actually get the 6 speed auto with egas?


Nope ... this is to do with 6-speed auto petrol versions getting aftermarket LPG installed on them.

I thought the 6-speeds were only on the V8s and the XR6T only though.

Most taxis out there are only the 6 cylinder motors ... and pov-packs as well ... no 6-speeders that i know of. Not many taxi are EGAS though (due to problems with the BA EGAS models) ... as they are usually petrol variants with aftermarket gas put on them.

I find it weird that a sparkplug can cause an auto transmission computer to blow up. I think it's just Ford spinning crap to put people off putting LPG on their petrol vehicles ... they just want buyers out there to buy EGAS models only ... instead of going aftermarket.

 

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Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 8:20 am 
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im with stock standard and tarahymen ( nice name :) )

on this sounds wee bit of bs

 

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Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 10:43 am 
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hi
LOL guys its ok , people do have there own opinion. Bulls##t or not at this stage of investigation that's wot the diagnoses is from FORD . My source for all this information is a reliable source.

Anyone keen to lead a BF for FORDMYTHBUSTERS i will supply the spark plugs free of charge and a ratchet and spark plug socket ;) anyone wanna supply there labor and someone supply a BF and lets try.

Wiring in any electronics can be very sensitive the way its designed and EMF of any sort can interfere with electronics.

OK guys i give u a simple example , why do electronic guys wear static wrist belts to earth when there working on electronics ?

Why do people remove ECU's out of cars when migwelding is carried out on the car ?

The initial voltage on the coil packs is a 12volt coil supply which is turned into 200 to 300 volts in the primary windings and then again transformed to 30,000 to 70,000 volts in the secondary windings of a ignition coil.
apply more load on the coil the coil puts out more volts very simple.

When this happened to a few BF falcons , transmission faults after LPgas systems were installed , all the LPgas company's supplying gas systems to the gas fitters halted there supply kits for BF's , why ?

The same LPgas systems were fitted by a few LPgas fitters and these BF's are running fine but the only difference is no spark plugs were change on the installations .

So believe it or not LOL .

Will fill u in on more info as it comes , if anyone is thinking about a LPgas system on a BF , it would be in there interested to contact FORD or email them asking the right questions .

cause a $3300 lpgas instalation could blow out to $10,000 plus in damage ???????

cheers

 

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Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 11:36 am 
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FPV_GTp wrote:
hi
LOL guys its ok , people do have there own opinion. Bulls##t or not at this stage of investigation that's wot the diagnoses is from FORD . My source for all this information is a reliable source.


I am not calling BS just yet, just saying I cant see the connection.

FPV_GTp wrote:
Wiring in any electronics can be very sensitive the way its designed and EMF of any sort can interfere with electronics. OK guys i give u a simple example , why do electronic guys wear static wrist belts to earth when there working on electronics ?


Grounding straps are to stop buildup of static that will put 10,000V+ straight into an IC if you grab it. Its a bit different to EMF

FPV_GTp wrote:
The initial voltage on the coil packs is a 12volt coil supply which is turned into 200 to 300 volts in the primary windings and then again transformed to 30,000 to 70,000 volts in the secondary windings of a ignition coil.


But the components used in cars are built to handle this. Automotive grade electronics are built to be more tolerant of noise and interference as well as heat and vibration. The MS2 ecu I use doesnt even use automotive grade components and is still compatible with just about every ignition and injection system there is.

FPV_GTp wrote:
When this happened to a few BF falcons , transmission faults after LPgas systems were installed , all the LPgas company's supplying gas systems to the gas fitters halted there supply kits for BF's , why ?

The same LPgas systems were fitted by a few LPgas fitters and these BF's are running fine but the only difference is no spark plugs were change on the installations .

Will fill u in on more info as it comes , if anyone is thinking about a LPgas system on a BF , it would be in there interested to contact FORD or email them asking the right questions .


I think there has to be a simpler solution. Maybe the loom is tapped off or modified during the installation. Spark plugs or not, its good to make people aware that fitting LPG on a BF 6spd is a bad idea until this is sorted out.

 

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Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 1:21 pm 
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Mechan1k wrote:
I thought the 6-speeds were only on the V8s and the XR6T only though.


That's the T56 six speed manual, the 6 speed auto is optional across the range.
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Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 1:58 pm 
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Scary to think changiing your plugs could do that..

 

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Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 6:19 pm 
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I've spoken to an auto trans place and they think the ball park figure to overhaul a ZF 6-speeder in the future will cost around $8000. To replace one will cost over $12000.
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Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 8:04 pm 
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something does sound very dodgey there.

i can see ford forking out a very large amount of cash when a lead is damaged though no fault of the owner under warrenty and that causing a raised resistance frying the trasmission.


if it is true, that raised resistance on the ignition can cause the auto ECU to fry i can see a recall being forced apon ford.

 

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Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 8:25 pm 
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So if a spark plug can cause the ECu for the transmission to crap itself ... what happens on a petrol engine when a spark plug (come to the end of it's life) arcs to the block (causing a misfire) ... you blow the electronics in the transmission when this heppens as well.

Pretty poor I would have thought.

--------------------------------------------------

Also you CANNOT buy an "XT" I6 (petrol or EGAS model) with the 6-speed ZF auto ... it is NOT optional.

Although it is an option on the XR6 and higher from what I can see ... but not on the taxi-pack XT models.

I just checked the Ford Australia website for this information

It is standard on the BARRA 230 3V V8 / BARRA 245 I6 Turbo / BARRA 260 4V V8 / BARRA 290 4V V8.

 

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Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 9:07 pm 
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yeh, i doubt that the problem is exactly as described, the power in a car is so dirty in the first place that if these TCM's were so sensitive to EMF/spikes, they would be dieing left right and centre.

 

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Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 12:47 pm 
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OK I can see 2 reasons for this.

Firstly the spark plugs on the BF form part of engine knock strategy. By measuing the spark plug resistance the ECU can determine how well combustion is working and modify spark, fuel, cam timing as appropriate. So you have to use the reccomended compatable spark plugs.

Seccond, the ZF 6 speed is a Veeeeery complicated transmission. It depends critically on the engine torque signals for the good shift quality.
(if you don't know all modern engines have to tell trans computers what torque they are delivering)

Probabily what happened is that when the car was running on gas the engine torque signal got all screwed up and damaged the transmission. I could also imagine that the trans ECU was asking for torque reduction but the engine ECU couldn't deliver it because of the bypassed fuel injectors so the trans ECU shut itself down or damaged itself. Being inside the transmission makes the ECU's very sensative to overheating.

 

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Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 1:03 pm 
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there's some believeable ideas.

 

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Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 1:16 pm 
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Spork wrote:
I could also imagine that the trans ECU was asking for torque reduction but the engine ECU couldn't deliver it because of the bypassed fuel injectors so the trans ECU shut itself down or damaged itself. Being inside the transmission makes the ECU's very sensative to overheating.


that sounds more like the problem, i cant see using the wrong spark plugs doing anything, as when the plugs become fouled or if the gap is wrong it will change their behavior. Either way its something for ford to fix as this definitly doesnt fit into the "built for tough" slogan.

 

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