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EF won't start, what else can I check? 

 

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 Post subject: EF won't start, what else can I check?
Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 6:18 pm 
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Ride: 95 EF XR8 & a 09 FG GT

Location: Rockingham and Port Hedland
WA, Australia

As in other posts, I mentioned that I have an EF Falcon, that won't start, It will turn over but won't fire, I am not getting any sparks at my leads.

I have ruled out starter motor, because it still turns over, the BEM because all of my electrical functions work, i.e smart lock, dash instruments and so on. I have done a visual in the engine bay and I can see nothing that is burnt out or broken....

I have checked the Coil pack (distributerless), fuel relay, ECU relay (under coolant tank), Battery and conections, all six high tension leads, fuel pump, all other fuses and relays in my fuse box and in the engine bay near the coolant tank.

Some people told me if no fuel is getting through the car won't start "Obviously" but if that was the case I can't see how that would make it not get any sparks at the spark plugs...........????? so I think it is not the problem...and I don't think it my alternator because it's light is not coming on on the dash and when you crank a car, the power does not come from that I don't think, due to the fact it would not be upto speed...

I cant get it to an auto electrician because it won't start and It will cost too much to tow..

I don't know what else to check, does any one know what else I can check or have any suggestions I could try,

Thanks, Aaron....:)
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Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 6:25 pm 
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Ride: 2.0 Turbo VW

Power: 142 rwkw

Location: Seaford State:
VIC, Australia

Check all fuses inside and outside in the engine bay.
Also check the interior light.

Unplug all connections under the inlet manifold and reconnect.... even give them a spray with wood-duck40!

Go over everything twice.

Even remove the crank angle sensor and clean it!

If the fuel pump is dead, there might not be any spark at all. as the coil pack will shut down on each cyl if theres no combustion. (but i don't think this is the case.)

Has to be electrical as you thought.

 

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Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 6:36 pm 
Parts Gopher
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Ride: 95 EF XR8 & a 09 FG GT

Location: Rockingham and Port Hedland
WA, Australia

OK mate, I have checked all fuses and relays..they are good..

where is the crank angle sensor?

and how would a blown interior light be the problem? my car has run fine in the past without that for weeks????
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Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 6:40 pm 
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Ride: 2.0 Turbo VW

Power: 142 rwkw

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VIC, Australia

Interior light is part of the smartlock.
If this is blown the car May be immobilised (and do what it is doing)

The CAS (crank angle sensor) is located at the front of the motor and is held in by 2x7mm bolts (maybe 6).

likewise if the light isn't working or there.... try it... replacethe globe and see what happens.



.

 

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Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 7:17 pm 
Parts Gopher
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Ride: 95 EF XR8 & a 09 FG GT

Location: Rockingham and Port Hedland
WA, Australia

Thanks mate, the light does work, and the CAS looks fine it is also the CPS crank position sensor also...I think, I checked it, it is ok, I don't know what else to check.....have you any idea of any thing else??

thank you,
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Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 8:56 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Location: orange
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cheak the efi relay uder the water res my did the same thing i left the key on and pulled out the relay and replaced it and all is well now
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Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 9:20 pm 
Parts Gopher
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WA, Australia

Which one, What colour is it, the green one or brown one?

I did check some and they seemed to work but I will check them again, more importantly, how do I check them, How do I know if they work?

thank you....
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Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 9:30 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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NSW, Australia

brown one green is fuel
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Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 11:07 pm 
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To confirm or eliminate Smartlock as a possible cause check the voltage at pin 3 of the ECU. Should be +12v DC with ignition on and between 6 and 6.5v (either DC or AC) when the car is being started or running. That does not necessarily confirm that the data sequence is correct but at least that some sort of signal is there. It would be highly likely to be correct if the voltage is in the 6-6.5v range.... means issue causing your probs are elsewhere.

Also, the ECU has no sensor for fuel pressure so will spark regardless if fuel is there or not.

If no spark then it is electrical :-
1. Power feed to the coil pack - Check the plug (4 pin plug) that plugs into the coil pack. It's the Red/dark Green (Red wire with dark green stripe).
Check that there is 12 volts there with Ign on (power is fed from the Ign switch).
2. Meter on DC range to read 12v. Stick red probe on +ve of battery (or the Red/DarkGreen wire) and the black probe on each of the 3 wires (other than the Red/DarkGreen). These 3 wire fire the coils. You should see a voltage, probably around 6 volts.

If no voltage there then the ECU is not firing the coils.


Can be a number of other things... see how you go with that

Oh, and the BEM is fed by 4 fuses:-
Interior Lamp/Radio fuse
Power door locks fuse
Wiper fuse
Parklamps fuse.
The Locks, Wiper and Parklamps circuits are probably routed through the BEM to control those items.
It is likely the the BEM itself is powered by the Interior lamp/Radio circuit hencethe comments about no Smartlock if that fuse id blown.

Hope that helps.

Last edited by muzza on Sat Feb 24, 2007 11:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 11:07 pm 
Parts Gopher
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Age: 31

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Ride: 95 EF XR8 & a 09 FG GT

Location: Rockingham and Port Hedland
WA, Australia

Ok if the brown relay is stuffed will that make the car not fire i.e no sparks?

Because it's a bit odd, if that is the ECU relay and it is stuffed it's odd that every thing else still works though, because I am sure that if the ECU is not getting any power due to the faulty relay I would of thought nothing would work, not even the starter motor or my dash board to even crank the engine?

any ideas????

thank you
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Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 11:16 pm 
Parts Gopher
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Age: 31

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Joined: 22nd Dec 2005

Ride: 95 EF XR8 & a 09 FG GT

Location: Rockingham and Port Hedland
WA, Australia

Muzza, if the ECU is not fireing the coils and there no voltage, what do I do, how do/can I fix it?

thanks, Aaron
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Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 11:18 pm 
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If the ECU is unplugged (i.e. could not be more stuffed than that) the following:-

Dash except temp gauge should work (none of the rest goes through the ECU).
The Starting Circuit is seperate to the ECU, engine will still crank.
Start motor rotation is inhibited by the BEM, not the ECU.
If the BEM detects the correct signal from the Ign barrel it allows the engine to crank and sends the Smartlock codes to the ECU to permit the ECU to run the engine.

Hope that helps......
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Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 11:28 pm 
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If no coil control from the ECU it is either a prob with wiring, the Smartlock codes from the BEM, ECU pin 3 receiving circuit for the SL codes, output drivers (the coil ones) in the ECU, or an insane ECU.

If it is the coil control wires, it would be unlikely all 3 would be affected by connection probs or driver circuit failure ... it would be more likely for only one or three to fail and get rough idle.

Has anyone done any welding on the car, or used it to jump start another car, or disconnected/reconnected the battery ?

Also, and someone here may have more experience with this...... what happens if the cam or crank angle sensor goes faulty ? does it still run or do we get this effect ?
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Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 11:34 pm 
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Age: 31

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Ride: 95 EF XR8 & a 09 FG GT

Location: Rockingham and Port Hedland
WA, Australia

Thanks, Muzza, every thing seems to work, once every blue moon the car will start, and when it does it runs perfectly, so I think the BEM, ECU and smart lock are fine, the only thing that seems to not happen is I am getting no power to my spark plugs, I have checked the coil and its fine, I just don't know what else to ckeck to find out why I am getting no power to my coil/plugs.

P.S no welding has been done on the car, but other cars have tryed to jump start mine, because when it first happened I thought my battery was flat.
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Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 10:35 am 
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EFford, still suggest the check at the Coil connector.

Since it works sometime means it is an intermittent problem... only good thing being it is faulty more often than not...

If you don't have a multimeter then use a small 12v lightbulb (like 1W or 2W globe).
Still think that would then point you in which direction to look..... if the indications are as they should be then it's the coil.... if no indications then it's back in the wiring or ECU control or BEM.

It's a matter of checking things to narrow it down...
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