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 Post subject: fuel only computer
Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 6:51 pm 
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does any one know of any fuel only computers??

need to give my hilux (V6 chev) some economy and thats just never going to happen with a 350 holley on there

 

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Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 8:10 pm 
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Not throttle body injected I presume? Tryed re-jetting the unit or changing to an Edelbrock / Rochester setup?

In a hemi-6 found Edelbrock much more versatile setup than the holley.

 

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Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 9:00 pm 
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there are 2 problems with the carb setup
one is the feul economy can get slight improvment with rejet but not as much as EFI

the second is it's a hilux 4X4 and it is going to be used as a proper 4x4 meaning climbing hills and driving on angles, both things carbie don't like to do.

the only other option is LPG but i'm not qualified to fit LGP so it would cost more then the lux is worth to have it fitted

we can drill the intake to fit injectors and and use a holly throttle body from a 350 or 500 holly carb pref a 500
it's already fitted with an electronic ingnition. and the other problem is it's an odd fire engine (small block chev V8 with 2 cyls missing) and not sure if an after market ECU could run it properly on the ignition side

 

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Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 9:52 pm 
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Sounds like a perfect project for a MegaSquirt to me. Do a google search and find the megasquirt yahoo group. A few people on here have em.

I was going to use one on a 351C, until I bought my EF.

 

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Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 9:55 pm 
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I suppose you could possible run an electric fuel pump on a bypass setup to deliver the extra fuel mix when required.

If its any good to you I know a bloke with a 4 Barrel injected throttle body setup with injectors (setup to flow 450HP) and mass air sensor that runs off an analogue computer - Air Sensors (US) brand. I had the computer running on a twin EA CFI throttle body setup on my centura 265 before going straight gas. Good for a performance setup but could surely be tuned down

 

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Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 11:05 pm 
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IMO if you are having trouble with getting the fuel economy with a 350 Holley you will struggle with EFI. You obviously do not understand the basics too well. I have installed my own aftermarket EFI and I understand Holleys very well as well as recurving dissys and I am still struggling to tune it well.

Doesn't matter if the engine is oddfire, boxer, v8, or a motorbike, you can aftermarket EFI it. If the "oddfire" refers to the firing order then you just have to adjust the injection wiring slightly.
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Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 11:26 pm 
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Bert wrote:
IMO if you are having trouble with getting the fuel economy with a 350 Holley you will struggle with EFI.


I think you will find most people have problems with getting fuel economy and still have power out of a Holley(house bricks with holes in them), it won't be an old style factory Holley that is for sure.

If you use the power you won't get any better economy out of injection, but if setup "correctly" you will get better all round economy than any carburetor which has to be a compromise somewhere, car manufactures wouldn't go EFI unless they had too, carburetors are far cheaper to produce, this includes the most complex Weber etc.

EFI would be far better for off road work, I have been in a few vehicles that didnt like the fact, they were nearly close to tipping on the side, same reason why the carby (very very old) on a phane is totally different or it has injection of some type, mechanical injection has been on planes longer than most members reading this have been alive.

LPG is great off road to, but normally harder to find, and damn hard to get it when you have run out while off road.

 

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Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2005 12:45 am 
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Bert wrote:
IMO if you are having trouble with getting the fuel economy with a 350 Holley you will struggle with EFI. You obviously do not understand the basics too well. I have installed my own aftermarket EFI and I understand Holleys very well as well as recurving dissys and I am still struggling to tune it well.

Doesn't matter if the engine is oddfire, boxer, v8, or a motorbike, you can aftermarket EFI it. If the "oddfire" refers to the firing order then you just have to adjust the injection wiring slightly.



for start i do under stand the basic very well. i realise under full power there will be no gain in economy but in cruise and light throttle EFI has much better economy the a carby. and since this car will operate under cruise and part throttle EFI will help economy. the other bonus is EFI doesn't care what angle it's on as long as there is fuel at the fuel pick up it will deliver the right amount of fuel.

and secondly the oddfire does not refer to the firing order. it refers to fact that this engine is basicly a small block V8 chev with 2 cylinders cut of and the rod journals have not been offset to take in to acount that the engine is a 90 degree V6, try to imagine a V8 runing with cylinders 3 and 6 not there, thats how the odd fire V6 works

the worry was that trying to setup the ECU to miss out these 2 'strokes' was going to be a hassle. so leaving the electronic dizzy in place and just using a fuel only ECU would be the way to go as the feul side in batch fire won't be afected by the missing cylinders


http://engine.firebirdv6.com/V690.html
this is al link to some info about the chev V6 engines and how they where changed during production. the one i have is the 200ci engine

 

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Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2005 9:25 pm 
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Since you have the electronic dissy it will tell the ecu when to fire the spark. Virtually all aftermarket ecu's will accept hall effect or magnetic trigger.

Also LPG is not very hard to install. I play LPG almost everyday and I'm not qualified to touch it. Its all common sense.
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Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2005 9:44 pm 
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Bert wrote:
Since you have the electronic dissy it will tell the ecu when to fire the spark. Virtually all aftermarket ecu's will accept hall effect or magnetic trigger.

Also LPG is not very hard to install. I play LPG almost everyday and I'm not qualified to touch it. Its all common sense.



you need to be qualified to to install it if the system is to be legal and the cost of doing would out wiegh the benifit.

that why a fuel only ecu would be the best way to go. it's cheap to install i can make or find any parts at work. and can tune it work.

i'd really like it if every one would stop trying to talk in to some thing i don't want and could adress the origal post.
i don't want LPG and i'm not going to pay for ignition control when i don't need it. and for real 4x4 work carbs are out of question as they don't like to drive on agles or up and down hills.

does any one know of any fuel only computers.


so far we have megasquirt and wolf 2D.
wolf stoped making the 2D in 1998 and have no old stock left. We are a dealer for wolf at work and i called them today.

 

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Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 2:24 pm 
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tickford_6 wrote:
does any one know of any fuel only computers.


so far we have megasquirt and wolf 2D.
wolf stoped making the 2D in 1998 and have no old stock left. We are a dealer for wolf at work and i called them today.


Buy any aftermarket one you can afford, just don't control the ignition side of things, there wouldn't be to many 2D ECUs these days.

After a lot of playing with Wolf 2D on my best mates highly modified Kent 1600 engined Mk1 Cortina, I wouldn't go that way, he bought the 2D because he had bought a new electronic dissy, he was kicking himself afterwards.

One thing a mechanical advance dissy cant do is finely change advance under different conditions, like little advance for start up and jump up 10 degs once started, then drop timing up and down in the load ranges, something we needed to do but we had to compromise the whole setup on a Dissy scope, we needed a dyno to, but it wasn't available.

This thing could be setup to idle nice at about 1000rpm and rev to easy to 10,000rpm on the road if the limiter was turned off (it needed to be left on), the rev limiter was left at around 8500rpm so it lasted.

The funny thing about the mates Wolf 2D was it loved rotary injection tables more than 4 cylinder for max power and rpm, he did this by accident at first back in 98/99, but found the tables made the engine run poorly at low rpm, with poor performance and idle.

 

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Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 4:12 pm 
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In case you guy's didn't realise; Spark control plays a major part in the fuel economy of an engine. Ideal spark for any given load is extremely important.
A MAF SEFI EEC from a simarly sized Ford V6(3.8 'Stang for instance...dime a dozen) would be the shot here and would run like a dream from the start. Just wire it up and plug it in.

Pete.
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Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 6:56 pm 
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Damage wrote:
tickford_6 wrote:
One thing a mechanical advance dissy cant do is finely change advance under different conditions, like little advance for start up and jump up 10 degs once started, then drop timing up and down in the load ranges, something we needed to do but we had to compromise the whole setup on a Dissy scope, we needed a dyno to, but it wasn't available.


Ahhh, that's why someone invented the vacuum advance decades ago and the two work together and there are plenty of after market dizzys that have adjustable advance curves for vacuum and mechanical.
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Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 10:30 pm 
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unclewoja wrote:
Damage wrote:
One thing a mechanical advance dissy cant do is finely change advance under different conditions, like little advance for start up and jump up 10 degs once started, then drop timing up and down in the load ranges, something we needed to do but we had to compromise the whole setup on a Dissy scope, we needed a dyno to, but it wasn't available.


Ahhh, that's why someone invented the vacuum advance decades ago and the two work together and there are plenty of after market dizzys that have adjustable advance curves for vacuum and mechanical.


Have you actually setup one that worked as good as a ECU can control, I can honestly say I haven't, and I have owned and setup a few after market dissys (Mallory, Accel etc), they are better than just standard vacuum or aftermarket mechanical dissys but they are still like I said, a compromise! And if I had the choice wouldn't touch them again.

Why did you think XF started using the ECU controlled ignition in the unleaded carby 4.1?

 

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