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Going lean at WOT from part-throttle 

 

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 Post subject: Going lean at WOT from part-throttle
Posted: Mon Oct 13, 2014 5:56 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Ride: EF XR6 Wagon, AU2 XR6 VCT

Power: 148 rwkw

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Ended up in Off-Topic, so re-posted here:

My earlier post under Tuning your Falcon with a T.I. Performance J3 Chip back in August:
"My EF XR6 goes way lean snapping the throttle open and way rich snapping it shut. For example, turning onto an on-ramp at about 2500-3000 rpm with minimal load then flooring it will lean out to 17 AFR at 4000rpm and WOT :shock: - definitely not ideal. I have played with VE table so it's safe going WOT from idle or under load against the brakes up to stall rpm - so it's fine for the drags. But without the load, it spikes way too lean. It's too far out to even think about working around by tuning rich everywhere. Would love to be able to sort this."


I thought I would put up a couple graphs from my data logging to illustrate the problem.

Here is a normal WOT run to redline starting from idle and a dead stop:
Attachment:
Not going lean from idle 121014.jpg
Not going lean from idle 121014.jpg [ 151.88 KiB | Viewed 63 times ]

It goes a little over-rich above 5000 rpm - which I will be tuning out - but otherwise AFRs are OK.

Here is another run (less than 3 minutes later), snapping the throttle open from about 30% throttle and 2400rpm:
Attachment:
Going lean from part throttle 121014.jpg
Going lean from part throttle 121014.jpg [ 159.85 KiB | Viewed 44 times ]

It instantly goes rich to 13.0 AFR as it should, then spikes lean for over a full second, peaking at 16.5 AFR , before dropping back to 11.8 AFR as in the previous run.

This lean spike is fairly consistent - happening whenever I mash it from cruise revs and low load. It hasn't caused any damage yet, or even noticeable pinging, but this can't be good for the engine long-term.

Has anyone seen this effect before? Any ideas what might be causing it?

Thanks.

 

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95 EF XR6 wagon, 17" FTRs, DBA, QFM, KYB/Koni, AU block, ported EF head, SS Inductions, Territory intake, MLS gasket, milled, Franklin RH24B cam, Coby headers, no cat, Tickford 2.5", 2800rpm stall, J3 chip

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 Post subject: Re: Going lean at WOT from part-throttle
Posted: Mon Oct 13, 2014 8:03 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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what condition are your injectors in? could one be sticky and slow to open?

 

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 Post subject: Re: Going lean at WOT from part-throttle
Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2014 7:53 am 
Getting Side Ways
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About 10,000kms on a cleaned and rebuilt set of AU injectors, so they should be OK. It is overdue for some injector cleaner, so I will do that.

But the problem existed even on the previous EF injectors, so I'm baffled.

Thanks for the idea.

 

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95 EF XR6 wagon, 17" FTRs, DBA, QFM, KYB/Koni, AU block, ported EF head, SS Inductions, Territory intake, MLS gasket, milled, Franklin RH24B cam, Coby headers, no cat, Tickford 2.5", 2800rpm stall, J3 chip

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 Post subject: Re: Going lean at WOT from part-throttle
Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2014 10:13 am 
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what about fuel pump or fuel reg???
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 Post subject: Re: Going lean at WOT from part-throttle
Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2014 12:04 pm 
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I can't help with the problem, but what are you using for data-logging?

 

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 Post subject: Re: Going lean at WOT from part-throttle
Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2014 12:31 pm 
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Thats winlog. Im assuming he is using a techedge 2j9 controller

 

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 Post subject: Re: Going lean at WOT from part-throttle
Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2014 2:07 pm 
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Ride: EF XR6 Wagon, AU2 XR6 VCT

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ranga83 wrote:
Thats winlog. Im assuming he is using a techedge 2j9 controller


Full marks! :D Bought the full-house tuning kit from TI Performance. Picked up an ancient laptop for free from work from the pile of obsolete computer hardware going to the recycler, spent $20 on a RAM upgrade, and I'm in business. Using Tunerpro RT for the tuning.

 

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95 EF XR6 wagon, 17" FTRs, DBA, QFM, KYB/Koni, AU block, ported EF head, SS Inductions, Territory intake, MLS gasket, milled, Franklin RH24B cam, Coby headers, no cat, Tickford 2.5", 2800rpm stall, J3 chip

Last edited by efxr6wagon on Tue Oct 14, 2014 2:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Going lean at WOT from part-throttle
Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2014 2:25 pm 
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Ride: EF XR6 Wagon, AU2 XR6 VCT

Power: 148 rwkw

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TROYMAN wrote:
what about fuel pump or fuel reg???


Fuel pump is reasonably new, and seems to work fine normally. I always keep at least a 1/4 of a tank of fuel when testing, to avoid leaning out due to fuel starvation. But the place where I do the part-throttle to WOT logging is a motorway on-ramp. It's a left-hand curve, and the wagon's fuel pickup is on the left, so maybe the lateral g's is enough for the fuel pump to be sucking air. Will try it again with a full tank and see what happens.

Fuel reg could be a prospect. It also works fine normally, but what would happen if it wasn't getting a vacuum reference? Wouldn't it spike lean as the MAP suddenly goes from 5 to 30 inHga and the injector has to work against that much more pressure?

I have a spare XR6 reg laying around somewhere, so I'll swap that in and see if it makes a difference. Will also check that it's getting vacuum.

Thanks for the help all.

 

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95 EF XR6 wagon, 17" FTRs, DBA, QFM, KYB/Koni, AU block, ported EF head, SS Inductions, Territory intake, MLS gasket, milled, Franklin RH24B cam, Coby headers, no cat, Tickford 2.5", 2800rpm stall, J3 chip

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 Post subject: Re: Going lean at WOT from part-throttle
Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2014 10:44 pm 
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efxr6wagon wrote:
Picked up an ancient laptop for free from work from the pile of obsolete computer hardware going to the recycler, spent $20 on a RAM upgrade, and I'm in business.
You must've lucked in on one with decent battery life. :P

 

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 Post subject: Re: Going lean at WOT from part-throttle
Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2014 11:08 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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snap0964 wrote:
efxr6wagon wrote:
Picked up an ancient laptop for free from work from the pile of obsolete computer hardware going to the recycler, spent $20 on a RAM upgrade, and I'm in business.
You must've lucked in on one with decent battery life. :P

I just got given a hp one for tuning with a fkd battery and keyboard, luckily my battery out of my fried one fits. Just have to get another keyboard and wipe the hd as its password locked

 

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ef futura, pacemakers, 2.5inch catback, k&n panel filter and 3.45 lsd. extractors/cat, ticky head, custom cam grind, t5. now onto cosmetics.

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 Post subject: Re: Going lean at WOT from part-throttle
Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 10:21 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Ride: EF XR6 Wagon, AU2 XR6 VCT

Power: 148 rwkw

Location: Auckland
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[quote="snap0964"][/quote]You must've lucked in on one with decent battery life. :P

Not really. I get about 40 minutes - which is not bad, considering its age - but not really enough for logging without keeping one eye on the battery indicator. So, I bought a dirt cheap car-laptop adapter online - plug it in the cigarette lighter and it outputs 19v 80w for the laptop. No worries now.

 

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95 EF XR6 wagon, 17" FTRs, DBA, QFM, KYB/Koni, AU block, ported EF head, SS Inductions, Territory intake, MLS gasket, milled, Franklin RH24B cam, Coby headers, no cat, Tickford 2.5", 2800rpm stall, J3 chip

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 Post subject: Re: Going lean at WOT from part-throttle
Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2014 2:13 pm 
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^^^^ That's what I'm on about - pretty rare for an aged laptop to have full battery capacity.

No probs with the power supply ?
A lot of them have 'brand' connectors to suit, so you're made to buy from the same OEM for a replacement.
Some too have your usual 19v, plus a reference voltage connection in the plug as well, so the laptop recognises the plug.

 

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96 XH Longreach 'S': LPG, Alarm, 3.23:1 LSD, Cruise, Trip Comp, ABS, Power Windows, Mid Series Dome Lt, Climate Ctrl
97 EL Futura S/W: LPG, Alarm, LED int Lts, Trip Comp, F/Lane Dome Lt, Climate Ctrl, T5 Conversion

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 Post subject: Re: Going lean at WOT from part-throttle
Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2014 4:38 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Ride: EF XR6 Wagon, AU2 XR6 VCT

Power: 148 rwkw

Location: Auckland
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I bought one of these:
www.trademe.co.nz/computers/laptops/pow ... 177801.htm

It works great! The laptop is probably so old that they hadn't gone proprietary with the adapter yet :lol:

Anyway, the setup is old, but effective.

 

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95 EF XR6 wagon, 17" FTRs, DBA, QFM, KYB/Koni, AU block, ported EF head, SS Inductions, Territory intake, MLS gasket, milled, Franklin RH24B cam, Coby headers, no cat, Tickford 2.5", 2800rpm stall, J3 chip

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 Post subject: Re: Going lean at WOT from part-throttle
Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 8:27 pm 
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Are you using nbsim for the ecu signal?

 

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 Post subject: Re: Going lean at WOT from part-throttle
Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 8:30 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Posts: 836

Joined: 1st Apr 2005

Gallery: 4 images

Ride: EF XR6 Wagon, AU2 XR6 VCT

Power: 148 rwkw

Location: Auckland
New Zealand

For testing purposes, I have disconnected the NBsim and have reset the ECU to clear fuel trims. That way, it is forced to work off the tables alone, and is not influenced by the O2 feedback.

 

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95 EF XR6 wagon, 17" FTRs, DBA, QFM, KYB/Koni, AU block, ported EF head, SS Inductions, Territory intake, MLS gasket, milled, Franklin RH24B cam, Coby headers, no cat, Tickford 2.5", 2800rpm stall, J3 chip

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