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Motec M800 vs 'Flashed' AU ECU 

 

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 Post subject: Motec M800 vs 'Flashed' AU ECU
Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 5:47 pm 
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Hi All,

I have a supercharged AU VCT (I6) which is run by a M800 motec ecu...pretty much top of the line. I bought this car 2nd hand. Anyone doing a forced induction setup these days would simply get the standard AU ecu flashed using a CAPA Ford Flasher or similar, but back in '02 when this kit was fitted it wasn't an option....hence the very expensive ecu!

My question is should I keep working with the motec, or change back to the standard AU ecu and get it 'flashed'? Which ecu would be more effective? Cost wise, after selling the motec, I could changeover at no extra expense....

Things I'm considering are:

1. Motecs are a race oriented ecu, and don't have great capability with start up and idle control. Will make as much power as anything else though. Mine is not 'bad', but it certainly starts with more difficulty than a standard car, and has a slightly lumpy idle (its not cammed, and yes its been tuned by one of Brisbane's best motec tuners - its all he does!).

2. Simon from 'nizpro' indicates that while the motec can control vct, it struggles with accurate cam and spark control, and that the standard ecu does this better. Any thoughts on this?

3. My motec controls the water injection on my vehicle.... its got a 3D map which I can use to adjust the boost level/rpm combinations at which water/meth is injected. I really like this feature....could water injection be controlled by the standard ford ecu via a flash tune? Are there auxiliary outputs to do this?

To my mind the best result would be to have the car run by the factory flashed ecu, which is also controlling water injection. This would be more legal, and I'd hope give better start up and idle control. Seems more simple with less 'variables' to worry about too!

The cons so far would be the time off the road, and the hassle of selling the motec (and the question of running water injection).

For your info, Simon from Nizpro thinks flashed ecu is best (he did a lot of motec tuning), Matt from Chiptorque suggests sticking with the motec (still does a lot of motec tuning....and agrees they start and idle a little rough). So I'm a bit confused...!

Elite auto in Brisbane will remove motec, sell flash tuner and custom tune for around $2K. I can sell the Motec M800 for $2K+.

Thanks for your help!

Joe

 

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 Post subject: Re: Motec M800 vs 'Flashed' AU ECU
Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 6:04 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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I don't much about aftermarket ECUs etc but wouldn't a tidy up like tune with the motec be better then just flashing a standard AU ECU?

 

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 Post subject: Re: Motec M800 vs 'Flashed' AU ECU
Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 6:15 pm 
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flashed ecu ain't gonna do your water injection at the same level of sophistication, would have to look at an aftermarket controller.
probably best you'd get is an RPM on/off point piggybacked off BBM/VCT solenoid activation, thats just me going off what limited knowledge i have but.

fairly tough choice, is what simon has said in direct relation to the AU ECU?
i know they (now) prefer flashed BA ecus over the M800s, but i don't know how the AU and BA ecus compare?

the factory idle/startup/part throttle is tempting, but honestly, if i were in the same boat i would stick with what you've got.
better the devil you know...?
it works well doesn't it, apart from idle and startup being a bit quirky?

 

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 Post subject: Re: Motec M800 vs 'Flashed' AU ECU
Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 10:45 pm 
Tyre Shredder
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SteadyED, yes Simon was speaking specifically about his experience with the BA's...which are dual VCT. Said tuning them on motec gave terrible results, and flashing standard ecu great results....but couldn't comment specifically on AU ecu's (so no, not direct relation!). Do you think the single vct would be a lot easier to control?

Thought that might be the case re: water injection.

Yep, apart from startup and idle it drives nice. Startup is great when hot or on warm days, but struggles in sub 15 degree temps (eg. 2-3 goes). Idle is not terrible, but just not totally even, particularly when cold (can hunt around a bit).

I should also mention....the motec doesn't run a know sensor, which I'm not a fan of!

Joe

 

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 Post subject: Re: Motec M800 vs 'Flashed' AU ECU
Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 8:10 pm 
Tyre Shredder
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Has anyone had experience with both a flashed standard ecu, and an aftermarket ecu, on the same vehicle? I'd love to know any differences in the running of this vehicle, and the results after tuning, etc.

For me the issues with aftermarket management are just cold start, part/light throttle and idle, but in reality I spend 90% of my driving time in these areas!

Joe

 

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 Post subject: Re: Motec M800 vs 'Flashed' AU ECU
Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 12:17 am 
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Why one or the other??..... Sell the Motec s**t u have and get a Wolf V500, its fully featured and has a LIFETIME WARRANTY!!!

 

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 Post subject: Re: Motec M800 vs 'Flashed' AU ECU
Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 12:33 am 
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Heheh...that was helpful. There's no questioning the quality of motec as far as aftermarket ecu's go.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Motec M800 vs 'Flashed' AU ECU
Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 1:12 am 
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Well its not quality if u cant even start your car!!.... now is it??

 

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 Post subject: Re: Motec M800 vs 'Flashed' AU ECU
Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 11:50 pm 
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I can start the car. This is more a question of aftermarket ecu vs standard ecu really....not specifically motec (though its my title). As I understand just about all standard ecu's have far greater detail and tuneability within their mapping. Aftermarket is basically used to get around a problem the hasn't been 'cracked' yet in the standard ecu, or to run extra things that the standard ecu doesn't have outputs for. 'Boost' was this problem when the motec was fitted to my car, but since then sct have accessed the standard ecus. Just trying to find out if tuning a standard one for boost will really improve driveability, and if its worth the effort (time off the road)? When it comes to aftermarket I won't change the motec!

 

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 Post subject: Re: Motec M800 vs 'Flashed' AU ECU
Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 12:07 am 
Getting Side Ways
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Well FWIW, tuning the original ECU is always the most preferable way of dealing with it all.
With the EEC-V on my car, it was not easy to get into the original ECU and tune it so I was left with going aftermarket. But from AU upwards, this is not the case as the ability to tune the original ECU is available.
As you say, MOTEC was developed for racing and does a great job of it ( just not as flexible for dealing with your more streetable engine setups ) so if it's already done then is there really a need to change it? Can you put up with the annoying cold start and idle problems or does it piss you off too much?
The fact that you are considering it suggests to me that it really does get on your pecs, so if you are able to sell the MOTEC to offset the tuning of the factory computer then do it - get it over and done with and be happy with your car.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Motec M800 vs 'Flashed' AU ECU
Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 1:30 am 
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JoeXR6 wrote:
I can start the car. This is more a question of aftermarket ecu vs standard ecu really....not specifically motec (though its my title). As I understand just about all standard ecu's have far greater detail and tuneability within their mapping. Aftermarket is basically used to get around a problem the hasn't been 'cracked' yet in the standard ecu, or to run extra things that the standard ecu doesn't have outputs for. 'Boost' was this problem when the motec was fitted to my car, but since then sct have accessed the standard ecus. Just trying to find out if tuning a standard one for boost will really improve driveability, and if its worth the effort (time off the road)? When it comes to aftermarket I won't change the motec!




Something like a Wolf V500 has awesome resolution.... which means u can get a very fine tune.

Its also got closed-loop boost control, closed-loop idle control..... to sum it up, it can do everything the standard computer can do plus a LOT more! AND LIFETIME warranty!

 

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 Post subject: Re: Motec M800 vs 'Flashed' AU ECU
Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 1:47 am 
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or if u can just re-calibrate stock ECU for boost (+ standalone Electronic Boost Controller).... do that.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Motec M800 vs 'Flashed' AU ECU
Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 12:42 pm 
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Thanks for the input fellas. Vic your suggestion is right....the car runs great in general driving and the motec has heaps of flexibility and options for tuning and extra stuff (eg. water injection). But cold start can be an issue for a 1/4 of the Brisbane year (believe it or not!), and things like idle and light throttle control probably take up 50% of driving. We all want our vehicle to run perfect...so yes it does bug me a bit!

Efmarek, fair suggestion re: Wolf3D, but I don't think this option would work out in terms of time/cost.

I'm in the process of modifying some other things, so once these are done I think I'll send it in for one last attempt at a nice motec tune. If this doesn't work out I'll ditch the water injection (don't want to do this), and go for a standard ecu 'flashed' tune. Hopefully will run nice all the time then!

Cheers All.

Joe

 

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 Post subject: Re: Motec M800 vs 'Flashed' AU ECU
Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 12:49 pm 
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Joe, I'm more up to date on Wolf v500 ECU than I am on Motec but have Motec been able to develop any ECU revisions allowing light cruise, cold start / idle adjustments? I would have thought that if you had it installed in 2000 or so, maybe they have done some updates in the last 8 - 9 years??

 

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 Post subject: Re: Motec M800 vs 'Flashed' AU ECU
Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 8:00 pm 
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Vic, theres adjustment for that on the M800, it's just a matter of time like every aftermarket EMS.
You aren't going to get factory like performance in those areas from a few hours on the dyno, even with a gun tuner.

Joe, if I were you I'd try and get familiar with the M800 software, then do a bit of research on tuning (Megasquirt related sites have alot of good info) so you can adjust idle/coldstart/part throttle stuff yourself.

The other option is let your tuner know that you want him to concentrate on those areas, and give him more time with the car.

 

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