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New "In car" live tunin BA/BF using mongoose & binary editor 

 

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 Post subject: New "In car" live tunin BA/BF using mongoose & binary editor
Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 8:05 pm 
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Hello everyone,

I've learned something interesting that is worth discussing with you guys.

I've been looking around for the cheapest way to get a temp tune onto my xr6t that incorporates my changes so I can get the JTG gas install done and as a result I've emailed lots of folks looking for advice.

BulletPerformace had a take that nobody else came up with and I'm intrigued.

I mentioned in the email that I had a Mongoose cable and had used FMP to update factory firmware.

In Mathews (mostly) own words:
You purchase Binary Editor software Dongle with J2534 license (comes with one token for one car)
I Will send you a blank Strategy template to allow flashing the car (The BA-FG strategy edit files are in progress $xxx each)
Purchase Tuning files to suit your vehicles BA turbo (like this one)
https://bulletperformanceracing.com.au/ ... -file.html

To use as a starting point and I'll be able to fine tune my own custom tune while in the driving car from the passenger seat with a laptop.

Now I've researched moates quarterhorse stuff before, I just didn't find anything definitive about falcons in there.

Do in short.. benefits are (to my inexperienced eye):
* No SCT or Snipper required.. I already have a mongoose cable.
* Live running updates on the fly rather than the usual stop, edit, upload, test process.
* No VIN locked devices, no limits to the number of ROMS, cars, uploads.

What do you guys think?

I am getting the 12 PSI semi generic tune because once I install my 3.5 inch cat, big injectors and other bits and pieces, my car will not run properly anymore. so I can't get my JTG liquid injection done. Once it's in I was going to get it dyno tuned.. but with this software and lots of cramming and study, I should be able to fine tune my own ride.. especially if the base tune is close already (and from what I've read bullet do a pretty good job)

I'm already in the process of buying a data logging wide band o2 sensor which will go nicely with this.

Any thoughts?


regards

Frank

PS, I do not work for bullet and have no relationship with them other than as a customer. (soon I hope)
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 Post subject: Re: New "In car" live tunin BA/BF using mongoose & binary editor
Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 8:36 pm 
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I think you better look a lot closer at this.

The tune you have posted up is for an SCT Flash tuner.

Moates use a chip for the EECIV/V, to do the live tuning you will need the chip. This is the Quarterhorse.

SCT do a remote Live wire flash tuner but I don't think it is Live Tuning.

Please correct me if I am wrong.

See the link below for Moates list on Ford Products
http://www.moates.net/ford-19862004-c-63.html
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 Post subject: Re: New "In car" live tunin BA/BF using mongoose & binary editor
Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 8:37 pm 
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PCM Scancan be utilised with the Mongoose. But I believe this will data log for you but not live tune.

I looked into the Moates stuff for my EF SOHC and when I spoke with BPR they were of little help. He did not even think of using the Moates with the I6.
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 Post subject: Re: New "In car" live tunin BA/BF using mongoose & binary editor
Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 9:20 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Looks like they are about to start offering it on their website.


The live part wasn't from him. .was from here:
http://www.eecanalyzer.net/be

Quote:
Yes this means you can finally tune while the car is running. It is no longer required to turn the car off and then download a new tune, just simple make the desired change and press the update button. It is not recommended or safe to make changes while driving. Make sure to have someone other than the driver make changes if live tuning is going to be done.


Here is the whole email from BPR.. with the prices removed as I don't want to annoy him if he finds this.
-----------------------------


If you have a mongoose cable there is a different option and different software that I can supply which will allow you to upload the tuning files via PC as many times as you like.

Also at a later date I will have definitions strategy files available for the software for purchase to edit your own car.

You can buy the software here

https://bulletperformanceracing.com.au/ ... t-320.html


How it works


You purchase BE software Dongle with J2534 licence (comes with one token for one car)

I Will send you a blank Strategy template to allow flashing the car (The BA-FG strategy edit files are in progress $xxxeach)

Purchase Tuning files to suit your vehicles BA turbo

BA 12 Psi Tune to suit your mods

https://bulletperformanceracing.com.au/ ... -file.html
------------------------------
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 Post subject: Re: New "In car" live tunin BA/BF using mongoose & binary editor
Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 9:26 pm 
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The whole part from that link http://www.eecanalyzer.net/be

If you read it will tell you that it is for EEC binary data and is used with The Quarterhorse.

I hope it works out for you.

"Binary Editor

What is it?

The Binary Editor software allows for editing of the Ford EEC binary data. Its definition files (Strategy Files) are open source and are saved in Excel. The Excel format makes editing the definitions very user friendly. You can look at the download page to see what definitions are supported. There is also a definition template that can be downloaded for those that would like create there own definition file. The Binary Editor can also display differences between binaries (Ford Tunes).

Binary Editor can display and log live data using either the TwEECer RT and or Moates Quarterhorse 1.6 hardware. All parameters available for display or data logging are defined in the definition files. This makes it easy to change things like the number of decimal places parameters will use when displayed or logged. Binary editor can estimate quarter mile times based off the vehicle speed sensor. The accuracy of the quarter mile times will depend on the accuracy of the vehicle speedometer and how fast the logging rate is. With the Moates Quarterhorse the tuning parameters, such as MAF (Mass Air Flow sensor) curve can be changed on the fly. Yes this means you can finally tune while the car is running. It is no longer required to turn the car off and then download a new tune, just simple make the desired change and press the update button. It is not recommended or safe to make changes while driving. Make sure to have someone other than the driver make changes if live tuning is going to be done."
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 Post subject: Re: New "In car" live tunin BA/BF using mongoose & binary editor
Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 9:47 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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are BPR not reputable?

surely it wouldn't be in his/their best interest to sell me a solution that doesn't work would it?

I have not decided to try it yet, that was why I asked on here.. but if it is something he has figured out, it is certainly interesting don't you think?
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 Post subject: Re: New "In car" live tunin BA/BF using mongoose & binary editor
Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 10:05 pm 
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lets just say I don't think the guy is all there, he didn't want to sell me the moates stuff because I was asking to many questions about the ecu calibrations..
so I went to moates direct.. :roll: .
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 Post subject: Re: New "In car" live tunin BA/BF using mongoose & binary editor
Posted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 2:47 am 
Getting Side Ways
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damn it .. not what I was hoping to hear.

I know thast the people that make binary editor actually list BPR on their site here:

http://www.eecanalyzer.net/links

so I figured there must be some sort of positive relationship.

perhaps I'll ask them about it and see if they understand what he means.
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 Post subject: Re: New "In car" live tunin BA/BF using mongoose & binary editor
Posted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 4:03 pm 
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I've written to them.. be interesting to hear what he has to say.. it's possible they were working this out together.

Just bought a BPSX D1 Digital Wideband WBO with serial datalogging output.. 95 dollars shipped.. brand new. (normal price is 109 USD plus shipping to australia)

the couple of reviews I've read say it's simply made but fairly well made and fairly accurate. comes with the usual bosch o2 sensor.
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 Post subject: Re: New "In car" live tunin BA/BF using mongoose & binary editor
Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 3:05 pm 
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Ok.. I just heard back from Clint, the author and owner of Binary Editor app.

This is what he had to say. (The Mathew mentioned is Mathew from BPR)

------------------------Clint from eecanalyzer.net --------------------------

Sorry it has taken me a day or two to answer. I am in Mexico on a job site and they have limited internet.

As for the questions on the Binary Editor. Yes you can use a Drew Tech Mongoose to flash 2 and 4 bank EEC5 processors. You can also log data at a faster rate than most scan tools. The hardware and Binary Editor are a proven set that will work on EEC 5s. The part that is always uncertain is the strategies. The strategies are what tell Binary Editor where parameters are located in the memory of the EEC. These strategies are developed by people like Mathew, Adam Marrer, Ben Head, Derek Finwick and so on. There are freebie strategies and pay for strategies. You have to be carefull in what strategy you purchase and so on.

You can ask matt for a Read only version so that you can evaluate the parameters. This will give you the look and feel for his strategy along with the look and feel for Binary Editor.

If you have any questions let me know

---------------------------------------------


So I might do that and request the read only version to evaluate. I like the fast datalogging thing too.. If I can incorporate that with the wideband O2 sensor I just bought I'll be cooking with power.


Thoughts? If this works as it should, this would be a really good alternative to the usual SCT stuff.


cheers

Frank
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 Post subject: Re: New "In car" live tunin BA/BF using mongoose & binary editor
Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 3:09 pm 
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he is refering to the eec5, ba doesn't run eec5..
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 Post subject: Re: New "In car" live tunin BA/BF using mongoose & binary editor
Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 4:01 pm 
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Yep BA is a very different beast to EECV.

 

_________________

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More people paid for a ride in a VT commodore then an AU Falcon so the VT is superior.
Based on that fact my Mum is the best around!

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 Post subject: Re: New "In car" live tunin BA/BF using mongoose & binary editor
Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 4:25 pm 
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yeah, just wrote back to him asking about the Black Oak ECU (MCP555 based, 1472k Flash)

Will know soon if it's doable.. lots of other fords used the black oak (Mondeo,Galaxy, Focus, Ka etc) so he will probably know straight away. and from a technical perspective, we already know you can upload firmware to a ba using a mongoose as I've done it with FMP.. so if somone has used binay editor to edit any black oak pcm regrdless of the car type, I'm prepared to believe Matt has a strategy file for the falcon developed.

I've never done it before, but the process seems simple enough, using an SCT and tuning software, make a single change, and use an ecu version of Diff to see what it changed.. do that over and over and eventually I will have the locations that all the usual settings and fuel maps are located. Then build a strategy file from that info.. BPR are certainly equipt to do that sort of work and Mathew is apparently a well known Binary Editor developer.. so it's definitely feasible. I have asked about the black oak, and if Clint says it's doable, I'll try it. like to be a trail blazer and worse case scenario is that I'll need to use FMP to get my PCM back to "built as" setup. (or just getting another ECU altogether.)

regards

Frank
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 Post subject: Re: New "In car" live tunin BA/BF using mongoose & binary editor
Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 4:57 pm 
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TROYMAN wrote:
he is refering to the eec5, ba doesn't run eec5..

Matt_jew wrote:
Yep BA is a very different beast to EECV.


Note the quote below,

SWC wrote:
The whole part from that link http://www.eecanalyzer.net/be

If you read it will tell you that it is for EEC binary data and is used with The Quarterhorse.

I hope it works out for you.

"Binary Editor

What is it?

The Binary Editor software allows for editing of the Ford EEC binary data. Its definition files (Strategy Files) are open source and are saved in Excel. The Excel format makes editing the definitions very user friendly. You can look at the download page to see what definitions are supported. There is also a definition template that can be downloaded for those that would like create there own definition file. The Binary Editor can also display differences between binaries (Ford Tunes).

Binary Editor can display and log live data using either the TwEECer RT and or Moates Quarterhorse 1.6 hardware. All parameters available for display or data logging are defined in the definition files. This makes it easy to change things like the number of decimal places parameters will use when displayed or logged. Binary editor can estimate quarter mile times based off the vehicle speed sensor. The accuracy of the quarter mile times will depend on the accuracy of the vehicle speedometer and how fast the logging rate is. With the Moates Quarterhorse the tuning parameters, such as MAF (Mass Air Flow sensor) curve can be changed on the fly. Yes this means you can finally tune while the car is running. It is no longer required to turn the car off and then download a new tune, just simple make the desired change and press the update button. It is not recommended or safe to make changes while driving. Make sure to have someone other than the driver make changes if live tuning is going to be done."
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 Post subject: Re: New "In car" live tunin BA/BF using mongoose & binary editor
Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 5:26 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Just heard back from Clint the author of Binary Editor again. (http://www.eecanalyzer.net/be)

------------------------------
the black oak is supported only using the mongoose and BE. The strategy is the same situation. It depends on the person whom authors it.
------------------------------

He has previously said that Mathew BPR is a well known strategy developer with Binary Editor.. and he has now verified that the Black Oak will work with a mongoose cable. so I think I'm going to be giving this a go. Mathew says that BF and FG are on their way too, so presumably the spanish oak PCM is in the same boat.

kinda excited.. now just got to find someone to swap my 60lp deka injectors for some 42 pound green giants and I can start the ball rolling.

cheers

Frank
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