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Problems with EL Tickford original dual-fuel, 

 

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 Post subject: Problems with EL Tickford original dual-fuel,
Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 8:57 am 
Oompa Loompa
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First things first, have read some of the remarks and pages here concerning this system. the aluminium cased module under the seat, is this the ECU or the Tickford LPG computer? I suspect the latter.

Here is problem. Full more or less, history, which i think is necessary.

EL wagon ex-taxi with Tickford plate LPG 3-97 conversion.
a month or so ago, ran low on LPG, switched to petrol and headed to refill. Ran fine switched over smoothly.

when refilled, gave me merry hell restarting on lpg, and from then on, has been difficult to restart on either.
Doesnt seem to be switching from one fuel to the other even, cant switch to petrol, except intermittedly when i get lucky. I can usually tell which fuel its on only by position of guage, which is set up to guage both lpg andpetrol on these.
the little switch itself checks out, is fine, have tried another switch same type, makes no difference, so isnt a simple switching problem.

the two lockout switches in engine bay are not typically activating when ignition is switched on, even when fuel guage shows LPG selected.

Ive tried putting jump-wire to these typical lockout switches, they usually react with this direct current, sharp slick.
turn over key and starter in this situation, vehicle will often start briefly then stall again, and once this happens, you cant get any further temp starts out of it.

Now here is latest development.

when pressing little dash fuel selector switch in and out, a buzzing sound was heard apparently from under dash, like sound of dying fly, when button is pressed in or held down.

I was convinced this was coming from under dash, sounded like a faulty component, ripped dash half apart looking for its source.

suddenly occured to me, was coming from under seat.

which is how I became aware of the existence of this MFer for first time.

steel panel under there with a couple of fuse holders and some kind of aluminium module, which i guess is suspect. the buzzing certainly emanated from it.
has 4 multi-pin sockets for wiring looms. each port has a title sticker thing.

so can anyone shed additional light on whole situation as detailed?
Is this thing an Tickford gas module,or an engine computer all ELs might have?
I figure its specific to tickford LPG system, what is known of this, commonly faulty, what symptoms, like mine?
where get?
Im not remotely impressed with this fn car , btw, which i have acquired for someone else, is causing me misery, nerves, and embarrassment,
main issues are oil leaks one after another, ( my war with the power-sterring hose connection leak behind pump is another whole story, i may have won that battle now)
and one fg auto-electric issue after another.

groan...LOL
thanks.
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Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 9:40 am 
Getting Side Ways
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hey dude welcome to the forums,

methinks that the box under the seat is the ECU
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Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 10:17 am 
Oompa Loompa
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unsure...it does not match pics of EL ECUs ive seen , as they seem to have one giant plug-loom, this has 5 smaller normal type plug sockets..
General Conn 1
Engine Conn 2
Diagnosis conn 3
Switch conn 4
Actuator conn 5

plus some kind of small external goold-coloured resistor or capacitor...

 

 

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Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 10:19 am 
Oompa Loompa
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top plan view

 

 

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Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 10:27 am 
Parts Gopher
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That is the Tickford LPG Computer 8-)
Station-rat
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Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 11:09 am 
Oompa Loompa
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is it? Was my first guess....but then i see this, on ebay, purporting to be an EL Tickford lpg comp...

looks nothing like mine.

he hasnt said where its located.

btw, thank Christ you have sensibly allowed the upload software for members to easily post pics from comp, instead of way those other stupid sites have things, where you can only put hosted pics.

very useful
here is ebay ad..
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/FORD-EL-GLI-LPG- ... dZViewItem

nothing like my thinga...has one big loom plug on it.

is it possible hes mistaken about that that thing is?
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Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 11:21 am 
Getting Side Ways
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1. that ebay ecu looks like the normal ECU (ECC 5)
2. the dude has 7 feedback so i wouldn't trust him too much. he probably means its an ECU to suit a vehicle running tickford LPG (do they run a normal ecu and a separate LPG ecu???)

 

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Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 11:37 am 
Oompa Loompa
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Well, thats another interesting question if im trying to scrounge a replacement.

is the ECU itself changed with that conversion?

(im getting better responses on this board than on two similiar boards i signed up to which you probbaly know of them, TrueBlueFords plus some other one..)

on ebay now there are things purporting to be both either ECUs or Tickford LPG modules for EA-EL

not one of them looks like this thing of mine..

i dont know 100% even that its faulty..

i know i cant effectively get either lpg or petrol selected and running, apart from intermitantly, yesterday it suddenly selected petrol and started immediately.
and this noise buzzing when ur operating fuel switch cropped up, which is coming from this thing pictured..

so points suspicious finger at it..
but fkd if i really know for certain.
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Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 1:24 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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have you cracked it open to make sure something hasn't come loose, or shorting.

this could cause intemitent issues
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Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 1:46 pm 
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ELwagonTaxi wrote:
top plan view
This is the LPG controller from Vialle, if it is a factory tickford install then it will work with the dual fuel ECU also installed by tickford to replace the petrol ECU.
Are you loosing coolant in small amounts?
If so then you might have a coolant leek inside the convertor, when this happens it rusts up the stepper motor and the car won't run.
To check the system , remove the stepper motor and select petrol, turn on the ignition and the stepper should move from one end to the other.

 

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Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 1:48 pm 
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There is a specific engine ECU for the Tickford gas cars. From memory its a 6TEx, and is hidden behind the passenger kick panel.

The only difference between the ECU's is an injector shutoff pin which is controlled by the gas ECU, which in your case is under the seat. I thought they usually bolted them to the left side of the pedal box, unless I'm mistaken.

Your problem could be a dodgy ground somewhere or +12v somewhere to the under seat ECU. Those computers are becoming a dime a dozzen at wreckers now with all the EL taxis now being completely out of service and usually wrecked. It wouldn't cost much too get another to test if your one is faulty or not.

In regards to the not starting on petrol issue, the gas ECU controls the injector on and off pin. When you hit the fuel select button it either grounds that pin (for no petrol) or ungrounds it (to allow petrol to run). So if that gas ECU is a dud, it can cause the petrol side of things not to work properly either. So it may be simply that the gas ECU has crapped it self coincidentally and another one will fix it.
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Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 2:27 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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Thanks, im gonna have to analyze all of that one sentence at a time (put it through my own engine manager)

no, havent cracked it open, my attitude was it will contain a heap of radio-type do-lackys i dont know one from another, anyway.

regarding Converter, it is brand new, replaced about a month b4 all this blew up , at a very top conversion place, the original large converter emmegas was running very rough idle and they cant adjust or doaything with them, they replaced it with an austrralian made converter.

dynod etc, ran fine coming out of there.

typically, as i say, when the normal fuel guage suggests car is set to lpg,
cant start and lock-outs solenoids etc, are not snapping to attention when ign is on.

when you try to get it out of lpg to petrol, over and over, operating switch, and ign switch on and off, it does not freely go back and forth between fuels. ( way i tell is that fuel guage itself reads both, depending on what youre on, i know its gon to petrol as there is only about 10l petrol in it, so low reading, but it is 3/4 LPG, so will read higher when in that.

yesterday, suddenly, trying to switch it, suddenly fuel guage read low, tried starter, roared to life.Idling fine. Switched off, lets try to get LPG. After a couple of tries of fuel switch, suggested we were in lp again, but no start.

override the lockouts on converter and lock-off.

started briefly, and died.then nothing, cant even get a cough out of it.

emanwhile, often, as you punch the fuel switch in and out, you are getting this soft buzzing noise, like a half-desd fly on your window sill..

traced to that box ive psoted.

and dats as far as ive gotten.
i can see myself buying one of these poxy things to try if thyeyre cheap over-supply at wreckers.

i looked a tthe thing, and thought, new part, if no 2nd hand, that could be a 500-1000 item at Ford or Fpv or something..

i was horrified, even though id at last tracked this buzzing noise, which i knew was connected to problem, maybe the whole problem.
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Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 7:29 am 
Oompa Loompa
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ok, where is this moving pin for injectors Im looking for? grounding and ungrounding moving or sliding pin, is it?
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Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 7:39 am 
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arm79 wrote:
The only difference between the ECU's is an injector shutoff pin which is controlled by the gas ECU, which in your case is under the seat. I thought they usually bolted them to the left side of the pedal box, unless I'm mistaken.

I am thinking that 6 seaters may need that area for the park brake so it may be reloacated under the seat. Thats where mine is heading when I go manual.

 

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Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 7:45 am 
Oompa Loompa
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Yeah, this has the foot operated LX torana style park brake, (except no knob like Torana) which spins everyone out i show it to, noone who doesnt remember LHLX ( UC??) Toranas even believes this car has a foot handbrake.
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