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Water injection????? 

 

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 Post subject: Re: Water injection?????
Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 12:35 pm 
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Hi Jo,

What can you tell us about your injection system... what pump and jets etc are you using?

rgds

Frank
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 Post subject: Re: Water injection?????
Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 2:47 pm 
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Frankieh, mine's a pretty basic system.

- Shurflo pump ( I think around 150psi - you want this sort of pressure for good atomisation, I think 80psi minimum)
- About a 5L water tank
- An inline fridge filter as per 'autospeed' water injection article (I had a blocked jet once and I don't want this lack of reliability in the system again).
- Solenoid to open water line at set boost level.
- Little 'T' piece
- An 'M2' jet into pre-supercharger pipe
- An 'M3' jet about 400mm before the throttle body (after supercharger)
- Some 4/5mm clear tube. Getting these to stay on with the pressure is one of the hard bits!

I don't know exactly what M2/3 represent, but M5 is big ( I've used one), and M1 is tiny. I'll be changing the pre-supercharger jet to an M1 after intercooler is fitted to see what changes. Its really easy to swap them and experiment, and makes big differences.

I have my ecu controlling when water is injected. I can set it to come on at a certain boost level/rpm combination (ie. I have a map for it). But you can use a basic checkvalve or similar that fits in the system, and just allows injection of water at a pre-determined boost level (they're adjustable).

I found best results when I include ethanol (methylated spirit) in the mix at a 50/50 ratio. I only used dimineralised water.

The whole setup I patched together with different parts. Would cost no more than $250 for what I'm using. I've seen a similar used kit go for around $350 on ebay. There are much more highly developed kits now though which deliver small amounts of water at low boost up to large amounts at full boost (boost referenced). Aquamist are a good example. These would be great, though if water delivery is a static thing (as in my setup), then the engine can be tuned around that (ie. more fuel as boost/rpm rise and there becomes less water in the mix). This would be good where the engine ultimately needs a lot of water, but you want to introduce the water early in the boost/rpm range (where you don't want as much generally). These systems can then ramp up the water delivery proportionately. You can even get systems where the water delivery can be properly mapped....eg. more/less water at different parts of the rev/boost range.

In practice I think the basic system works well on the I6. I've read before that water (to prevent detonation) is needed where peak torque is made. Our engines when boosted are making peak torque at quite low rpm (eg. 3000rpm), so in my opinion this is where some decent water delivery is needed. In other engines you might need very little water down low, and heaps up top (for high rpm peak torque). Certainly my engine before fitting the pre-throttle injector would ping between 2000-3000rpm on boost, and then clean up and go smooth above this. I guess immediate boost at peak torque if you boot it at 2500rpm would be the cause for the detonation. So in my case I think the generous water delivery in this range, which tapers off compared to fuel volume as rpm rises, works!

Think this is the longest thing I've written on here. Hope it helps Frankieh and anyone else interested!

Joe

 

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 Post subject: Re: Water injection?????
Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 3:42 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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I have saved that post and will be following it when the time comes..

I'm still curious to see how my water to air set up works first..

what sort of boost/cooling are you running?

rgds

Frank
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 Post subject: Re: Water injection?????
Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 5:11 pm 
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Would there be any advantage running water injection at WOT on an N/A car? I have 20L of methanol to use up before it goes bad!

 

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 Post subject: Re: Water injection?????
Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 6:30 pm 
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well... there is an advantage of running fully sik advanced timing without detonation.. so yes... would benefit.. dunno if it'd be enough to justify the cost/effort just to burn though 20 litres.
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 Post subject: Re: Water injection?????
Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 6:37 pm 
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Yeh, didn't think so :(

 

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 Post subject: Re: Water injection?????
Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 8:32 pm 
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frankieh wrote:
I have saved that post and will be following it when the time comes..

I'm still curious to see how my water to air set up works first..

what sort of boost/cooling are you running?

rgds

Frank



Frankieh, around 10psi boost and only water/ethanol injection.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Water injection?????
Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 9:50 pm 
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Cool...

What model Shurflo is it? I ask because I just looked though their catalog looking for hi pressure and I think the highest I could find was 50psi..
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 Post subject: Re: Water injection?????
Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 11:02 am 
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Not sure Fankieh. I bought it for $120. I know shurflo specifically make a high pressure pump designed for water and alchohol. Someone like devil's own or boost cooler or something sell it.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Water injection?????
Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 11:49 am 
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this is something im interested in aswell.
have you ever run just water without the meth??
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 Post subject: Re: Water injection?????
Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 12:33 pm 
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Very interesting topic.

Joe - do you get tired of having to refill the water/meth cannister every time it goes empty?

Also what happens if the cannister goes empty? Is it dangerous to let it go dry.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Water injection?????
Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 4:17 pm 
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TROYMAN wrote:
this is something im interested in aswell.
have you ever run just water without the meth??


Troyman, yes I've run water without ethanol on many occasions. In theory water has better ability to reduce det than meth, but I've just found the ethonal blend always works better. A lot of others find the same thing. I guess because its a fuel also, so the octane rating is lifted (though water increases octane rating too). Maybe the way meth evaporates? Just seems to reduce det well and allow the engine to run smoother on boost.

shav wrote:
Very interesting topic.

Joe - do you get tired of having to refill the water/meth cannister every time it goes empty?

Also what happens if the cannister goes empty? Is it dangerous to let it go dry.


Shav, don't find it a prob to fill up the water meth. Just part of regular checks and maintenance for me...I'm under the bonnet more often than i fill it anyway! Takes 30 seconds, and for me would last around 2 weeks (depends how much you boost!).

Its dangerous to let it go dry if the engine is tuned lean/advanced or with extra boost when water is on. My bottle is attached to the low water sensor, so it tells me on the dash when its low. Its the same as when your windscreen washer water runs low. I've never found this to be a problem....i've had a problem when a hose has blown off, so water wasn't making it to the engine.

Joe

 

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 Post subject: Re: Water injection?????
Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 5:05 pm 
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hey joe?
would you be nice anough to post a few pics of where your water jets are positioned and water tank is mounted??
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 Post subject: Re: Water injection?????
Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 5:35 pm 
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Am I wrong in thinking FORD was the first company to release a car with a turbo and it had water injection as standard? You had to buy special water to fill the tank, but it didn't take long for people to start running out in the middle of nowhere and filling up with local tap water. I think that the "special turbo water" may have been de-ionised or something similar.

This was in the late 50's or early 60's...

Ferrari and others used water injection on their Formula one cars at ratios of up to 1:1 with their petrol?!!!! Renault used injection after fuel, Ferrari injection before or with petrol... Or something.

Hells, been a while since I looked at this too, but I was pretty keen to hook up another fuel rail and have water running through it and through six injectors that's for sure! Looked the goods from what I've seen --- And that's all the way from Word War 2 fighter planes up to now.

Stainless extractors probably a good idea... :D

Right, leave you boosted guys to it. I'm years away from looking at this seriously again... Cheers for now, Fiend.
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 Post subject: Re: Water injection?????
Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 8:36 pm 
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TROYMAN wrote:
hey joe?
would you be nice anough to post a few pics of where your water jets are positioned and water tank is mounted??


+1, would like to see some picks

 

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