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adjustable camshaft gear 

 

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 Post subject: adjustable camshaft gear
Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 10:33 am 
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Need an adjustable cam gear for my e-series 6 as timing is a bit off.
Can anyone recommend a good brand at reasonable price, and is there any I should steer clear of?
Also interested to hear other people's experience with adjustable gears, good or bad.

 

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 Post subject: Re: adjustable camshaft gear
Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 11:32 am 
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Vernier gear they are commonly known as. I need one for my i6 and I have been told its a good idea to have one when ever you do an cam mods. Heres a list off ebay
http://www.ebay.com.au/sch/i.html?_saca ... Ford&rt=nc
Dont know much more. Crow has the name thats been around for a while but the cheaper ones made out of billet steel, so I dont know
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 Post subject: Re: adjustable camshaft gear
Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 11:49 am 
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i have a crow one and havent had any issues

 

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 Post subject: Re: adjustable camshaft gear
Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 1:00 pm 
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I had a rollmaster one in my ed and it was good, never moved, never gave any issues
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 Post subject: Re: adjustable camshaft gear
Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 1:10 pm 
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I'm pretty sure I have a Rollermaster myself, bought it from VPW years ago. Anyways I have had no issues with it. More suited with aftermarket camshafts giving a bit more tune. Not sure how helpful they will be with a stock camshaft though.

 

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 Post subject: Re: adjustable camshaft gear
Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 2:39 pm 
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just as a quick noob question would you retard the cam for low down torque or something or am i thinking about it the wrong way.

 

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 Post subject: Re: adjustable camshaft gear
Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 3:04 pm 
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For low down you advance the cam

 

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 Post subject: Re: adjustable camshaft gear
Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 3:33 pm 
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phongus wrote:
I'm pretty sure I have a Rollermaster myself, bought it from VPW years ago. Anyways I have had no issues with it. More suited with aftermarket camshafts giving a bit more tune. Not sure how helpful they will be with a stock camshaft though.


Yeah, that's why I need adjustment. I'm running a fairly wild Camtech cam and it really needs to be dialed in. Going on the dyno soon so I can get my chip re tuned for other mods, so I'd like to have it in by then and get cam timing set up at the same time
The rollmasters are looking good at the moment, price is right too.

 

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 Post subject: Re: adjustable camshaft gear
Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 4:17 pm 
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Its always a good idea to get one when you do the cam upgrade. Ive just got a tickford head and cam at the moment but would have liked to have dropped a vernier gear in at the same time the head/cam was done but the cash situation didnt allow it. Good thing too is if you upgrade the cam in the future you already have the gear
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 Post subject: Re: adjustable camshaft gear
Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 5:27 pm 
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roughredXR6 wrote:
phongus wrote:
I'm pretty sure I have a Rollermaster myself, bought it from VPW years ago. Anyways I have had no issues with it. More suited with aftermarket camshafts giving a bit more tune. Not sure how helpful they will be with a stock camshaft though.


Yeah, that's why I need adjustment. I'm running a fairly wild Camtech cam and it really needs to be dialed in. Going on the dyno soon so I can get my chip re tuned for other mods, so I'd like to have it in by then and get cam timing set up at the same time
The rollmasters are looking good at the moment, price is right too.


Then it will definitely help improve the performance once the cam is dialed in properly :).

NCIIGHIA wrote:
just as a quick noob question would you retard the cam for low down torque or something or am i thinking about it the wrong way.


From what I remember (so correct me if I am wrong), you advance the cam timing to move the power/torque curve to the lower RPM range. Retarding delays the power/torque band further up the RPM range. Obviously the effect is depending on how much you advance/retard the timing as well as what camshaft you have.

Not to be confused with ignition timing, which controls when the fuel/air mixture is burned from TDC.

 

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 Post subject: Re: adjustable camshaft gear
Posted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 3:58 pm 
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"crow cams" vernier gears are rollmaster ones anyway. crow cams don't make verniers, at least they didn't when I got mine. Might not have been rollmaster but definitely wasn't 'crow'. Either way never had problems. Advance for low down, other way for top end.

 

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 Post subject: Re: adjustable camshaft gear
Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 10:12 pm 
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mine is a crow vernier gear. Got mine about 4 years ago.

 

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 Post subject: Re: adjustable camshaft gear
Posted: Sun May 12, 2013 10:52 pm 
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I'll pm the OP about this separately...
For the rest of us, you might find it interesting to read some comments of
Greenmachine on this thread;
ford-4l-and-6-cylinder-f1/3-9l-4-0l-inline-6-modification-guide-t66-270.html
maybe around page 19 when logged in?
Cheers

Last edited by edwgns on Mon Oct 20, 2014 8:34 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: adjustable camshaft gear
Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 9:51 am 
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Keep in mind I must have been having a dense moment there - because one tooth on the cam gear is actually something like 14 degrees - not 8 like I state there (redface)...

Adjustable cam gears weren't available (or I certainly didn't know of any) when I started doing that messing about.

Once I had an adjustable cam gear I messed a bit with the timing of the JMM cam and found that a relatively small amount of later timing made fairly decent top end improvement for quite a small loss in bottom - but with advancing the cam, it took quite a lot for any real noticeable improvement - with actually fairly disproportionately huge loss in the top.

With the JMM cam I always ended up right back at the specified timing for overall best performance.

In the early days I had issues with the JMM cam (took quite a while to realise it needed nearly TWO extra shims) - so put the ED XR6 cam back in and also briefly tried an EF XR6 cam too - and did the same messing about with the adjustable gear on those cams - with the same general results.

In short my experience is that in practice it's not as simple or clear cut as shifting the whole power "band" of a cam up or down a bit - moving it up (later timing) more or less works as you'd expect - but trying to move it down takes a lot of advance which also SEVERELY truncates the top - not only does the band move down in the revs but the range of the band seems to shrink severely which is where that truncation comes from. I guess if it worked as straight forward as the theory there'd be just the one perfect cam and then we could just run it advanced or retarded according to our application or taste. Clearly it doesn't really work like that.

 

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 Post subject: Re: adjustable camshaft gear
Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 10:38 am 
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Greenmachine wrote:
Keep in mind I must have been having a dense moment there - because one tooth on the cam gear is actually something like 14 degrees - not 8 like I state there (redface)...

Adjustable cam gears weren't available (or I certainly didn't know of any) when I started doing that messing about.

Once I had an adjustable cam gear I messed a bit with the timing of the JMM cam and found that a relatively small amount of later timing made fairly decent top end improvement for quite a small loss in bottom - but with advancing the cam, it took quite a lot for any real noticeable improvement - with actually fairly disproportionately huge loss in the top.

With the JMM cam I always ended up right back at the specified timing for overall best performance.

In the early days I had issues with the JMM cam (took quite a while to realise it needed nearly TWO extra shims) - so put the ED XR6 cam back in and also briefly tried an EF XR6 cam too - and did the same messing about with the adjustable gear on those cams - with the same general results.

In short my experience is that in practice it's not as simple or clear cut as shifting the whole power "band" of a cam up or down a bit - moving it up (later timing) more or less works as you'd expect - but trying to move it down takes a lot of advance which also SEVERELY truncates the top - not only does the band move down in the revs but the range of the band seems to shrink severely which is where that truncation comes from. I guess if it worked as straight forward as the theory there'd be just the one perfect cam and then we could just run it advanced or retarded according to our application or taste. Clearly it doesn't really work like that.


Good to hear from someone who has experimented with cams and timing.

When I installed my camtech regrind the timing mark on the stock gear was close to half a tooth out, so ended up setting it on the advanced side which would explain the big mid range hit between 2500 - 4000rpm, and fairly flat top end for such a large cam.
It sounds like I can expect a decent improvement once its dialed in, as the cam is supposed to work from 3000 to 6500. Being manual with short dif gearing it can catch you out when its wet the way it is now, wider power band and more up top would be nice.

Thanks greenmachine. Great info/advice.

 

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