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almost starting . . . poop . . poop . . poop 

 

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 Post subject: almost starting . . . poop . . poop . . poop
Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 8:22 pm 
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I connected the battery and turned the key for the first time with my AU conversion. The dash lit up, everything seems good, the motor turns over smoothly, and fuel is flowing.

At first it just turned over and didn't start. Then after a few goes it started to mildly poop poop poop. Maybe the turning over warmed things up a bit. It wasn't really about to start, the pooping was too mild. The sound was audible from the exhaust tip and the engine bay. I don't like these kind of sounds from the engine bay.

My guess is the timing is too far out for it to start, but i'm open to other ideas. When i had the motor on the bench before installation, i removed the no.1 sparkplug and found top dead centre on compression. I then installed the dizzy using the before and after markers underneath the cap. When trying to start it today, i varied the timing in both directions about 20deg from this point, but it seemed to make no difference.

Any suggestions? What is the risk of damage, i don't want to play around with the dizzy any more without further insight?

 

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Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 8:51 pm 
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check simple things like fireing order, injector pulse, spark.. if its all sweet double check the dizzy is def not 180 degrees out

 

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Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 9:18 pm 
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Brad92XR6 wrote:
check simple things like fireing order, injector pulse, spark.. if its all sweet double check the dizzy is def not 180 degrees out

Firing order - check the right leads are on the right terminals on the dizzy and on the right sparkplugs?

Injector pulse - should be fine because the pooping is the same whether on petrol or lpg.

Spark - remove ignition lead or one lead and place near block and check for spark when motor being turned over? I recall the users manual telling not to do this because of the ecu? If this is okay how can one person do it?

180deg out - recheck no.1 piston TDC on compression and dizzy install?

 

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Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 9:31 pm 
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relaxed_diplomacy wrote:
Brad92XR6 wrote:
check simple things like fireing order, injector pulse, spark.. if its all sweet double check the dizzy is def not 180 degrees out



Firing order - yea thats right.. check that the fireing order is correct on the dizzy cap going clockwise i think it is. then just make sure there on the correct plug..

Injector pulse - should be fine because the pooping is the same whether on petrol or lpg.

Spark - never seen or herd of a problem with checking with spark on any car, aslong as you have the lead properly grounded then you wont have any drama, easiest way is get a screwdriver that fits snug into the end of the lead. not just the boot but the actualy lead inside the boot then just lay it on the rocker cover and stick your hand through the window to crank. if you want to you can just use a spark plug and make sure its grounded properly.

180deg out - yep, easiest way pull no.1 plug out hold your finger on the hole and turn the motor over till you get it on compression, another sure fire way is to pull rocker cover off and get number 6 valves just as the exhaust valve closes and the intake valve opens which is called rocking. then no.1 will be on compression with both cam lobes pointing down. obviously line up the TDC mark on crank.

 

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Nissan Patrol 96 diesel
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White
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Big stereo

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Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 9:51 pm 
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Another suggestion but is probably irrelevent because the engine isn't actually running, is that if it happen's to be a miss-fire. The best way to see what cylinder's are firing, which one's are running good, and which one's are running s**t, is to one by one, take off the plug to the fuel injector and listen to the engine, if you find one or 2 aren't firing then you know where to concentrate your diagnosis on.

 

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Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 10:20 pm 
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Brad92XR6 wrote:
Firing order - yea thats right.. check that the fireing order is correct on the dizzy cap going clockwise i think it is. then just make sure there on the correct plug..

The cap is numbered. I used a spare cap when fitting the plugs, even though the motor was out on a stand. Very unlikely i got this wrong but can still check easy, reading the numbers off a spare cap.

Quote:
Spark - never seen or herd of a problem with checking with spark on any car, aslong as you have the lead properly grounded then you wont have any drama, easiest way is get a screwdriver that fits snug into the end of the lead. not just the boot but the actualy lead inside the boot then just lay it on the rocker cover and stick your hand through the window to crank. if you want to you can just use a spark plug and make sure its grounded properly.

I thought you were supposed to hold it near but not quite, so you generate and can see a spark. So you are saying to fully ground it and you will still see a spark (if things are working properly)?

Quote:
180deg out - yep, easiest way pull no.1 plug out hold your finger on the hole and turn the motor over till you get it on compression,

Yes, did that carefully, but can check again. Reckon a prob here is unlikely, but . . .


If all these are right, what to check next? I'm hoping to get this baby on the road asap!

 

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Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 10:32 pm 
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SpeedyED wrote:
Another suggestion but is probably irrelevent because the engine isn't actually running, is that if it happen's to be a miss-fire. The best way to see what cylinder's are firing, which one's are running good, and which one's are running s**t, is to one by one, take off the plug to the fuel injector and listen to the engine, if you find one or 2 aren't firing then you know where to concentrate your diagnosis on.

The coil is not ancient and seemed fine for the few hundred clicks i drove on it. I cleaned up the dizzy so it should be good. The leads aren't too old and worked fine for the few hundred clicks i drove on them. The plugs are new. I have spares i could swap in for testing if need be.

The injectors are AU, probably 110,000kms old, but are probably irrelevant because the pooping was the same on LPG.


Having done so many things at once during the conversion there is potential for problems with many things, yet at the same time i have taken my time and done things to a good standard.

 

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Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 11:57 pm 
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if it's happening on LPG too (and you're sure the LPG system is OK) you can probably rule out the fuel side of things.

after it's been cranking for a while, are the plugs wet with fuel?
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Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:40 am 
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was the dizzy from a running engine??
maybe the good old tfi module has died??
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Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 1:20 pm 
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Okay, i've done some investigating.

LEADS - I checked that the leads are in the right places on the dizzy cap and plugs, and they are.

SPARK - I removed no.1 sparkplug, inserted another sparkplug in the end, moved it as close as possible to the drivers side, enclosed the area with my hand to stop the light so i could see tha spark better, turned the key and found out via my arm rather than my eyes that there is indeed spark. Don't try this at home folks. The whack didn't bother me at the time, and still doesn't bother me, but my arm and right lat is a bit tingly at the moment.

FUEL - When i removed the sparkplug the end looked wet from fuel.

ISC - I found myself wondering if my ISC gasket with it's say 4mm holes may be causing the starting problem. So i removed the gasket, but it didn't make any difference.

DIZZY - I removed no.1 sparkplug and rotated the engine checking for the compression stroke, but this time i couldn't tell if the air was going in or out. So i decided to just rotate the dizzy 180deg. I did this and the engine still doesn't start, although, it doesn't even poop anymore. Maybe i need to swap it back. I'm thinking i would rather devise an air direction meter than remove the rocker cover. Maybe if i dip my finger in detergent i could judge compression by bubbles?

Any further suggestions?

 

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Last edited by relaxed_diplomacy on Wed Oct 22, 2008 1:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 1:29 pm 
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TROYMAN wrote:
was the dizzy from a running engine??
maybe the good old tfi module has died??

I'm pretty sure the dizzy is the one out of my XG's previous engine. That engine blew up, pistons hit valves, timing chain skipped, piece of metal embedded in timing gear, timing case cover cracked, maybe the LPG did it because it wasn't right - but the PCV was fine. My guess was the dizzy is fine.

Since i'm getting spark at the plugs does that mean the TFI module is fine or not necessarily? I have two spare dizzy's that work so i could try one if there is a case for doing so.

There is a lot of water-repellant gunk in the EB's module plug contacts. Maybe the electrical flow isn't good enough?

 

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Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 1:43 pm 
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Your not using the AU map Sensor are you? - that doesnt work.

Nigel
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Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 1:50 pm 
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Nigel wrote:
Your not using the AU map Sensor are you? - that doesnt work.

Nigel

No, i'm using the EBII MAP sensor.

 

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Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 1:52 pm 
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I figure the smartlock bypass module is working since i've got as far as i have?

Surely if you get the fuel and spark right the engine has no choice but to go?

 

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Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 1:56 pm 
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Not true - Fuel load calculations. Regulator pressure? have you got the fuel lines on the right way?

You need a fairly specific a/f ration to get "boom"
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