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Best 1/4 mile cam? 779b ? Advice please 

 

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 Post subject: Best 1/4 mile cam? 779b ? Advice please
Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 11:07 am 
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Want to build my car for good 1/4 times.
Will be running an EF tickford motor. Plan to shave the head for some compression, add cam, exhaust, j3 retune e85 if need be etc.

At what point do I need bigger injectors?
What is the best cam to run for 1/4 mile times?
Will I NEED a bigger fuel pump?

Have rung a few places that said get a 977b (or similar) to run 1/4 mile, but I suspect these people just want to sell me something, rather than consult with me about my car.
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 Post subject: Re: Best 1/4 mile cam? 779b ? Advice please
Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 12:58 pm 
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- standard injectors run out at about 170-180rwkw,
- you will need 36lb or 42lb injectors with a Walbro 255 or a Bosch 040 fuel pump if you are going to use e85.
The 977b cam is good, but depends what times your are chasing. Its not a very big cam at all.

 

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EL Futura: CVE head, Wolf V500, ICE Ignition and Coil, 36lb injectors, Walbro 255lb, Paci comps, 3" exhaust, T5, Harrop Truetrac with 3.9s. Now with 198.9rwkw, (~185rwkw and 13.80 @99.1mph) with more power to come

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 Post subject: Re: Best 1/4 mile cam? 779b ? Advice please
Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 1:14 pm 
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GeZza200 wrote:
- standard injectors run out at about 170-180rwkw,
- you will need 36lb or 42lb injectors with a Walbro 255 or a Bosch 040 fuel pump if you are going to use e85.
The 977b cam is good, but depends what times your are chasing. Its not a very big cam at all.



Sounds like good advice and experience ^. Cheers.
Injectors are a 30min job, and shouldnt be too much harder to install the Walbro. I have no problem with these additions, and seems that they're going to be needed regardless if chasing more than you listed.

My problem is, that I want power. Naturally. But a cam isnt a cheap or simple job to fit, esp once talking about the big stuff. Cams from a reground $170 through to $500. I want to make sure I get the right cam first go, and build the car around it. (top end wise, because I am cheap) I already bought a vernier cam gear.

Im told it will be pretty hard to kill a tickford E series bottom end without boost. Would you agree?
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 Post subject: Re: Best 1/4 mile cam? 779b ? Advice please
Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 1:27 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Yeah the bottom end is very strong, the only thing that kills the NA setups is the standard rocker gear. Pushing revs towards 7000rpm and arms can start snapping. I would give CVE a call and tell them what you are doing. They have cams that will send you over 200rwkw with the right headwork and supporting mods.

 

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EL Futura: CVE head, Wolf V500, ICE Ignition and Coil, 36lb injectors, Walbro 255lb, Paci comps, 3" exhaust, T5, Harrop Truetrac with 3.9s. Now with 198.9rwkw, (~185rwkw and 13.80 @99.1mph) with more power to come

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 Post subject: Re: Best 1/4 mile cam? 779b ? Advice please
Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 1:34 pm 
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I will call them now.

Cheers.

With luck I will get a better result than I have from talking to 'Crow' and to 'Sure Cams'. They just want to sell off the shelf products and dont give a damn about your results.

I asked Crow for a consultation and they asked me to fill out an online form. I did so, and they replied with the kind of cam i would be getting... I dun think so!!
Used to have a 39/71 in my 260z from crow. I dont think they will be seeing my business again unless they smarten up.
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 Post subject: Re: Best 1/4 mile cam? 779b ? Advice please
Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 1:59 pm 
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Barnfind-EA wrote:
I will call them now.



Strike 1 was too busy to take my call.

What the F do people think in business these days. People suck so much, I may just not even bother doing this at all because its just such a pain in the a** to deal with PEOPLE.
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 Post subject: Re: Best 1/4 mile cam? 779b ? Advice please
Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 5:53 pm 
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Barnfind-EA wrote:
My problem is, that I want power. Naturally. But a cam isnt a cheap or simple job to fit, esp once talking about the big stuff. Cams from a reground $170 through to $500. I want to make sure I get the right cam first go, and build the car around it. (top end wise, because I am cheap) I already bought a vernier cam gear.

Im told it will be pretty hard to kill a tickford E series bottom end without boost. Would you agree?


There is no difference between a so called Tickford 4.0 EF and a bog stock EF bottom end. If you want to build a bottom end, start with an AU Block.
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 Post subject: Re: Best 1/4 mile cam? 779b ? Advice please
Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 8:27 pm 
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Just turbo the standard donk change the diff ratios
Cheap and nasty

 

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 Post subject: Re: Best 1/4 mile cam? 779b ? Advice please
Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:03 pm 
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SWC wrote:
Barnfind-EA wrote:
My problem is, that I want power. Naturally. But a cam isnt a cheap or simple job to fit, esp once talking about the big stuff. Cams from a reground $170 through to $500. I want to make sure I get the right cam first go, and build the car around it. (top end wise, because I am cheap) I already bought a vernier cam gear.

Im told it will be pretty hard to kill a tickford E series bottom end without boost. Would you agree?


There is no difference between a so called Tickford 4.0 EF and a bog stock EF bottom end. If you want to build a bottom end, start with an AU Block.



Thanks dude. I believe the compression is significantly more. For eg. My stock EA is 8.8:1 and the EF tickford is supposed to be around 9.5ish:1 and use hyperutectic pistons (forgive my spelling if thats wrong)
I have no ambition to alter the bottom end.
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 Post subject: Re: Best 1/4 mile cam? 779b ? Advice please
Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:05 pm 
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mendyxr6 wrote:
Just turbo the standard donk change the diff ratios
Cheap and nasty


Whats cheap about a good turbo setup? I imagine though, after talking to CVE that I will throw on a cam (suitable for turbo later on) and some 92lb valve springs, let the man tune the J3 and just use it for a while.
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 Post subject: Re: Best 1/4 mile cam? 779b ? Advice please
Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 10:07 pm 
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Just throwing it out there since your building the car for the 1/4 mile then more HP/torque is better.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Best 1/4 mile cam? 779b ? Advice please
Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 10:13 pm 
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What would you call a good 1/4 mile time? Does the car have to remain streetable? What trans & diff gears are you going to run or plan to run? IF your running an auto, what stall converter speed do you want to run? Yes, gearing does have an impact on your cam choice.

Easiest & cheapest way to better 1/4 times is weight reduction.

Have a good look thru fordmods, see the power & 1/4 times people are getting with the usual drop in a regrind like a 977b, a decent tune on a j3, extractors & exhaust and then ask yourself is that enough for you?

I've got a 1673 regrind in my eb Ghia I6 (didn't want to go too far, it is/was my daily driver), with a fresh (atm less than 2000kms since full rebuild) engine, an EL ecu & J3 chip. Thermo fans, T5 manual, 3.27 lsd diff (stock ratio for this car), pacemaker extractors & full 2.5 sports exhaust. It hasn't been near a dyno yet, have to sort a few little things with the car before I do that, but I can tell you, "seat of pants".... it's a huge improvement in power & acceleration. Still not as good as my modified EB Xr8 5spd manual, but not far off!

Cheers

ToranaGuy

 

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 Post subject: Re: Best 1/4 mile cam? 779b ? Advice please
Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 10:32 pm 
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ToranaGuy wrote:
What would you call a good 1/4 mile time? Does the car have to remain streetable? What trans & diff gears are you going to run or plan to run? IF your running an auto, what stall converter speed do you want to run? Yes, gearing does have an impact on your cam choice.

Easiest & cheapest way to better 1/4 times is weight reduction.

Have a good look thru fordmods, see the power & 1/4 times people are getting with the usual drop in a regrind like a 977b, a decent tune on a j3, extractors & exhaust and then ask yourself is that enough for you?

I've got a 1673 regrind in my eb Ghia I6 (didn't want to go too far, it is/was my daily driver), with a fresh (atm less than 2000kms since full rebuild) engine, an EL ecu & J3 chip. Thermo fans, T5 manual, 3.27 lsd diff (stock ratio for this car), pacemaker extractors & full 2.5 sports exhaust. It hasn't been near a dyno yet, have to sort a few little things with the car before I do that, but I can tell you, "seat of pants".... it's a huge improvement in power & acceleration. Still not as good as my modified EB Xr8 5spd manual, but not far off!

Cheers

ToranaGuy


Pre turbo.. Id be happy with 13s. I will fit 3.45 xr6 diff with the cam. Seems to be the cheapest most available diff to fit. Id like 4.11:1 but I expect Id need a 9"?? Seems like too much for what I want to do.

As for the torque converter, ill have to run standard for a while.

What are some of your ideas for cheap weight reduction? I cant think of any. Not legal ones anyway.
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 Post subject: Re: Best 1/4 mile cam? 779b ? Advice please
Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 10:38 pm 
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VIC, Australia

Good call on the diff. You can get lower ratios like 3.7 and so on to fit the borg warner in our falcon's, but not so easy to come by. 4.11 wouldn't be too streetable, would be reving too high when cruising.

If it's a higher spec car, you can remove the stereo and sound deadening, boot carpet & so on to reduce weight.

Cheers

ToranaGuy

 

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I am the ToranaGuy!|74 Lh Torana Turbo|78 Hz PanelVan|86 Mighty Boy Ute|93 EB2 Ghia,GT Mockup,5spd,LPGI,Full Leather|2 x EB Xr8 5spd's|FS [VIC]: Wrecking - Eb XR8 - Parts available |Build Thread|Ebay Items - Ford Parts|

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 Post subject: Re: Best 1/4 mile cam? 779b ? Advice please
Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 10:41 pm 
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Barnfind-EA wrote:
SWC wrote:
Barnfind-EA wrote:
My problem is, that I want power. Naturally. But a cam isnt a cheap or simple job to fit, esp once talking about the big stuff. Cams from a reground $170 through to $500. I want to make sure I get the right cam first go, and build the car around it. (top end wise, because I am cheap) I already bought a vernier cam gear.

Im told it will be pretty hard to kill a tickford E series bottom end without boost. Would you agree?


There is no difference between a so called Tickford 4.0 EF and a bog stock EF bottom end. If you want to build a bottom end, start with an AU Block.



Thanks dude. I believe the compression is significantly more. For eg. My stock EA is 8.8:1 and the EF tickford is supposed to be around 9.5ish:1 and use hyperutectic pistons (forgive my spelling if thats wrong)
I have no ambition to alter the bottom end.


EA is a 3.9 and the EF is 4.0. Also additional compression over the stock EF 4.0 is from the head, nothing else. Pistons are exactly the same for EF 4.0 bottom ends, XR or otherwise.
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