Fordmods Logo

cam and cam gear install help please! 

 

Page 1 of 2 [ 17 posts ] Go to page 1, 2  Next

 
 Post subject: cam and cam gear install help please!
Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 5:05 pm 
Parts Gopher
Offline

Posts: 86

Joined: 20th Apr 2008

Location: perth
WA, Australia

Hey guys,

just in the process of installing a 549 crow cam and crow adjustable cam gear in my el xr6.

we are a bit unsure as to whether we have the cam timing correct.

Now the specs on the cam sheet say that the cam is advanced=1 (degrees im guessing) so does that mean that i set the adjustable cam gear retarted 1 degree to make up for the difference??

i know that the notch on the cam gear should be at 3 degrees, but how many mm is this from the top of the head??

At the moment we have the cam gear advanced 1 line (2 degrees i believe) and the notch is around 2-3mm above the head.

Can someone please guide us in the right direction as to how we should be setting this up!

Also when we have everything in the correct position should the lobes on cyl 6 be perfectly even? because where we have it the LHS is slightly lifted higher.

thanks a tonne!


Damien

 

 

Attachments:
DSC03732.JPG
DSC03732.JPG [ 134.36 KiB | Viewed 2017 times ]
DSC03731.JPG
DSC03731.JPG [ 135.49 KiB | Viewed 2008 times ]
DSC03730.JPG
DSC03730.JPG [ 175.34 KiB | Viewed 2008 times ]
DSC03729.JPG
DSC03729.JPG [ 184.1 KiB | Viewed 2005 times ]
DSC03728.JPG
DSC03728.JPG [ 131.12 KiB | Viewed 2003 times ]

 

_________________

El xr6
14.268 @ 96.77mph--- motorplex 4/3/08

549 crow cam
chiptorque chip
pacemakers
hiflo cat
cai w/ k&n panel filter
3.89:1 diff gears

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 6:21 pm 
Getting Side Ways
Offline

Posts: 6166

Joined: 8th May 2007

Forget about retarding or advancing the cam on the vernier gear. Put it back to "0" until you get the right tools to dial it in.

The proper way is to use a degree wheel and look for the correct "duration" at TDC, or another way is to measure the correct valve "lift" at TDC. Even though the 2nd way is less reliable because the lifter can play with the readings i still use the 2nd option

You need a magnetic base for a dial gauge, and you need a dial gauge that measures from 0.001" to 1" for example

Magnetic base ....HERE

Dial Gauge ....HERE

From what i gather on the spec sheet, your cam needs show 0.063" lift at number 1 valve when number 1 piston is at TDC, but you should check this with Crow first. The mark on the balancer cannot be trusted to show TDC as they can slip over time as mine did.

you can check TDC with a special tool, or you can remove the spark plug and stick something in their with a few marks drawn on it for easier visual on what the piston is doing. Turn the crank by hand and watch carefully when the balancer mark approaches the pointer on the timing cover.

Take note when the piston reaches the very top of its travel, stop and make a mark on the balancer at the timing cover pointer. Then continue to turn the crank and take note when the piston starts to move down again. Stop and make another mark on the balancer. Exactly in the middle of these two marks youve just made is the true TDC. It might line up with the factory mark on the balancer, or it might be off if the balancer has slipped. Either way trust this new mark

Now youve found TDC, setup your dial gauge its sitting on top of number 1 intake rocker arm next to the oil hole, cause this is where you measure the lift 'aka' how much it moves down.

Turn the crank so the cam gear mark is on the exhaust side about to rise to the top of the head. Watch the dial gauge move from "0" and keep turning the crank until you see 0.063" on the gauge then stop. Does the TDC mark on the balancer line up with the pointer on the timing cover?

If so then your lucky like i was with my cam, if not, then you gotta loosen the cam gear screws and advance or retard the cam until you find the correct lift at the rocker arm when the balancer reaches the pointer on the timing cover

We are talking about less than 2mm of lift here, so make sure the dial gauge and base arent moving around and throwing the readings out

Last edited by FordFairmont on Sun Oct 26, 2008 12:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 10:03 pm 
Getting Side Ways
Offline

Age: 108

Posts: 927

Joined: 27th Sep 2007

Location: Adelaide
SA, Australia

Without throwing a spanner in the works, if the timing chain is old and stretched the timing would need to be advanced and for the amount of time it takes to change the vernier timing its worth it to try a couple of settings until you find one that feels good for you.
That timing is set at 2 degrees and that should be fine as a baseline.

 

_________________

165 Killer Wasps all packaged in a green kmart car, almost an explorer in a way...

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 9:21 pm 
Parts Gopher
Offline

Posts: 86

Joined: 20th Apr 2008

Location: perth
WA, Australia

thankyou so much for your help fordfairmont, your post really filled us in with the parts we could understand.

Goin out in the shed now to hopefully get it all done. will let yus know how it goes!

Dame

 

_________________

El xr6
14.268 @ 96.77mph--- motorplex 4/3/08

549 crow cam
chiptorque chip
pacemakers
hiflo cat
cai w/ k&n panel filter
3.89:1 diff gears

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 9:38 pm 
Getting Side Ways
Offline

Posts: 6166

Joined: 8th May 2007

yeah theres a few things that i could have explained more clearly, like when checking that the Top Dead Centre of piston 1, TDC, and your making the marks on the balancer..... make them where the pointer is on the timing cover. Inbetween the two marks is the true TDC.

When this TDC mark is at the pointer on the timing cover, thats when you dial in the right amount of cam lift.

You will work out how much you need to adjust the cam gear just by measuring and making temporary marks on the balancer and turning it with the cam gear bolts loosened.

any q's just ask
Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 1:20 am 
Parts Gopher
Offline

Posts: 86

Joined: 20th Apr 2008

Location: perth
WA, Australia

yep thats cool mate we got it in the end. we found that the original timing mark was pretty spot on so we went by that!

had to retard the cam gear a tad to get 0.063" when at tdc which was no probs at all.

now that is all done i am just waiting to get my chip in the mail so i can take it for a drive!

also another problem we have is i CANNOT figure out where this bolt came from! any ideas???? its the only one anything like that in amongst the container i was keeping all the bits in...

cheers

edit: just deleted photo

 

_________________

El xr6
14.268 @ 96.77mph--- motorplex 4/3/08

549 crow cam
chiptorque chip
pacemakers
hiflo cat
cai w/ k&n panel filter
3.89:1 diff gears

Last edited by twindongs on Thu Aug 07, 2008 2:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 2:18 am 
Parts Gopher
Offline

Posts: 86

Joined: 20th Apr 2008

Location: perth
WA, Australia

ok dont worry about the bolt we have it all back together fine!

next issue.... we started the car (with no chip yet) and it seemed to idle ok, obviously not perfect but not bad enough to stall.

we did notice that there was a strong presence of lifter noise haha. we left it to idle for around 10 minutes. In this time the lifter/tappet noise did not go away.

Is this normal OR i think we may have broken 2 tappets by accidently pulling them apart when we had the rocker gear off. once pulled apart they would not click back into place properly like they originally were. have we destroyed these lifters from doing this??

thanks for any help!

 

_________________

El xr6
14.268 @ 96.77mph--- motorplex 4/3/08

549 crow cam
chiptorque chip
pacemakers
hiflo cat
cai w/ k&n panel filter
3.89:1 diff gears

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 8:21 am 
Getting Side Ways
Offline

Posts: 6166

Joined: 8th May 2007

you gotta make sure each shim is clipped in fully in each rocker arm.

Maybe you should buy a set of new lifters if these ones are getting on 12 years old. You cant really damage them by pulling it apart.
Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 10:03 am 
Parts Gopher
Offline

Posts: 86

Joined: 20th Apr 2008

Location: perth
WA, Australia

hmm yeah we checked all the holes in the rocker arms for the shims that came out and they all looked ok, like nothing half hanging out or anything.

maybe ill take it for a drive and see if that fixes it by pumping a little more oil around up there. will this damage anything from me driving it and the lifters being so noisy still? or should i just try and let it idle a bit longer?

thanks!!

 

_________________

El xr6
14.268 @ 96.77mph--- motorplex 4/3/08

549 crow cam
chiptorque chip
pacemakers
hiflo cat
cai w/ k&n panel filter
3.89:1 diff gears

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 10:18 am 
Getting Side Ways
Offline

Posts: 6166

Joined: 8th May 2007

if the lifters arnt pumping up properly it can affect performance slightly.

Dunno about the damage? I would sort it out when you can though...... i think Repco or a similar place could get a set of aftermarket ones in for around 200 or you can go to Fraud and get charged 800+ for a set :shock:
Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 8:33 pm 
Parts Gopher
Offline

Posts: 86

Joined: 20th Apr 2008

Location: perth
WA, Australia

all sorted. came home today and let it idle for around 3 minutes and they finally pumped up and so no noise!

took the car for a wrap and it feels suprisingly smooth!! can really feel the cam come on hard around 2500. should be interesting when i get the chip to put in in about 20 mins!!

 

_________________

El xr6
14.268 @ 96.77mph--- motorplex 4/3/08

549 crow cam
chiptorque chip
pacemakers
hiflo cat
cai w/ k&n panel filter
3.89:1 diff gears

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 8:47 pm 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Posts: 3363

Joined: 27th Dec 2004

Gallery: 4 images

Ride: MCMXCV Falcon

Location: G town
VIC, Australia

how much did the cam set u back? is it a regrind or billet?

 

_________________

Image

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 1:30 am 
Parts Gopher
Offline

Posts: 86

Joined: 20th Apr 2008

Location: perth
WA, Australia

its a billet cam from crow, i payed 400 bux for it straight through them. you could prolly get it cheaper if you had an account with repco though but i didnt know anyone who did...

its all systems go now, got the chip in and it is idling very nicely (pretty lumpy sounds awesome!!)

probably not quite as pokey as i was hoping for, i mean there is definately a difference in there but not a crazy amount of power increase.
i might try and have a play around with the cam timing. what harm/or what will it do if i advance it back to the centre notch?? (from 1 notch retarded at the moment)

thanks!

 

_________________

El xr6
14.268 @ 96.77mph--- motorplex 4/3/08

549 crow cam
chiptorque chip
pacemakers
hiflo cat
cai w/ k&n panel filter
3.89:1 diff gears

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 5:53 pm 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Age: 32

Posts: 1833

Joined: 3rd May 2007

Gallery: 8 images

Ride: AUII XR6 Uterus

Location: South Coast
NSW, Australia

i think if anything it should be advanced because o on the new vernier gear is the exact same position as the original due to the keyway not moving, most if not all of those vernier gears for falcons are made by the one engineering company and they are pretty spot on.

if the chain is original and heaven forbid has stretched (coz thy can't shrink) would retard the cam timing meaning you woul dhave to advance to regain normal timing.

i threw my crow cam straight in started on 0 and off i went with std ecu and have never had a problem since. i got the feel of it at zero then moved it one up (2degrees) drove it for a while, went 2 up (4 degrees) but don't like driving my car that hard to get the benifits of it so i came back down to 2 degrees.

i feel i was lucky but by rights thats why you pay for a billet. pretty much plug n play.

the lifters are usually fine they just need the bakerlite clip that retains them together but at a pinch will operate without them. i picked up a pack of 13 (one spare and needed it!) for under $20 from memory, alot better than $200 and yes they do take a long time to pump back up, usually happens faster under load due to better oil pressure.

noisy lifters are just a heritage with the ohc falcons they wouldn't be the same without them. if they weren't working properly your valves would certainly let you know.

 

_________________

Not to get technical, but according to chemistry alcohol is a solution.

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 6:48 pm 
Parts Gopher
Offline

Age: 30

Posts: 69

Joined: 10th Apr 2007

Ride: Falcon

Location: Canberra
ACT, Australia

curious as to what chip you got, where from and for how much??? looking at getting one for mine to get a little more outta it thats all
Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:
Sort by  
 Page 1 of 2  [ 17 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 12 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

 

 

It is currently Tue Dec 19, 2017 6:05 am All times are UTC + 11 hours

 

 

(c)2014 Total Web Solutions Australia - Australian Web Hosting and Domain Names