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Controlling dual VCT on a budget? 

 

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 Post subject: Controlling dual VCT on a budget?
Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 10:45 am 
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Hey guys,

Im not much of electronics wiz otherwise I wouldnt be asking.

Would it be possible to control the PWM solonoids for the dual VCT with an electronic boost controller? A boost control solonoid is also a PWM solonoid.

Its going to cost me $450 for a set of vernier gears for the BA motor + the install and adjustment time in between dyno runs to see the difference which will add up. If I was able to control them externally via an electronic boost controller then it would make things much quicker. The cams do not need to move throughout the rev range, they just need to stay in the same spot so I can copy what the vernier gears would do.

The whole reason for trying all this stuff NA and on the cheap is to decide whether it is worth putting a BA motor into the maverick btw. If it works good Ill put an NA egas motor into it, if it doesnt work out then Ill put my EA motor and a GT3540 in there instead. That will be with the megasquirt that I have now. I dont want to buy another autronic for the 4wd.

Thanks,
Dan
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 Post subject: Re: Controlling dual VCT on a budget?
Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 11:47 am 
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Dansedgli wrote:
Hey guys,

Im not much of electronics wiz otherwise I wouldnt be asking.

Would it be possible to control the PWM solonoids for the dual VCT with an electronic boost controller? A boost control solonoid is also a PWM solonoid.

Its going to cost me $450 for a set of vernier gears for the BA motor + the install and adjustment time in between dyno runs to see the difference which will add up. If I was able to control them externally via an electronic boost controller then it would make things much quicker. The cams do not need to move throughout the rev range, they just need to stay in the same spot so I can copy what the vernier gears would do.

The whole reason for trying all this stuff NA and on the cheap is to decide whether it is worth putting a BA motor into the maverick btw. If it works good Ill put an NA egas motor into it, if it doesnt work out then Ill put my EA motor and a GT3540 in there instead. That will be with the megasquirt that I have now. I dont want to buy another autronic for the 4wd.

Thanks,
Dan


not posible safely but the cam gears would be the go

different oils, temps, preasures etc change the position of the cams so it will infinately vary with constant pwm you need closed loop cam control or custom gears

 

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Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 12:09 pm 
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Thanks for the reply.

When you say the oil temp and pressure change the position of the cams, this would make tuning the cams difficult even with the likes of an ECU that can control dual VCT, like the autronic and motec wouldnt it?
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Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 7:03 pm 
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The Motec, Autronic and Stock computer have a cam sync sensor that they use in conjunction with the crank trigger so the computer can work out present cam angle phase and target cam angle phase. Then the cam angles are set on a cam angle vs Engine rpm table.

You could use an electronic boost controler to control the solenoids but you have to be a friggin genius to re program the entire boost controller to control the cams rather than boost.
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Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 7:39 pm 
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Ah okay, that makes sense. Thanks.

Ill try the vernier gears first to satisfy my tight a*** needs.
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Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 2:46 am 
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xcabbi wrote:
The Motec, Autronic and Stock computer have a cam sync sensor that they use in conjunction with the crank trigger so the computer can work out present cam angle phase and target cam angle phase. Then the cam angles are set on a cam angle vs Engine rpm table.



You could use an electronic boost controler to control the solenoids but you have to be a friggin genius to re program the entire boost controller to control the cams rather than boost.


do they really the motec yes but it was special order but the autronic i never knew did it

and the boost controller is not as bad an idea as you would think!

its the way a lot of euro cars did it and the begining of the camless pneumatic engine design

eg: preasure a = degree's a

so if you had a good enough closed loop boost controller then keeping instantaneous control of preasure keeps constant cam control but this is not acurate enough with budget boost controlers available

 

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Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 2:47 am 
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Dansedgli wrote:
Ah okay, that makes sense. Thanks.

Ill try the vernier gears first to satisfy my tight a*** needs.


dan where are you getting the gears from?

 

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Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 8:32 am 
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Atomic performance makes them. They are $450.

With your user name being Proflash can I assume you have something to do with flash tuning?

Have you had any experience retro fitting a BA ECU? When I was asking around a lot of people said it could be done but when asked to do it they couldnt follow through.
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Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 10:00 am 
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Atomic pretty much make everything except for Ford I6 aluminium blocks :D.

And I'd also love to know if the BA/BF ECU can be used in a pre BA conversion. Can you imagine a TC/TD cortina with a full house BF motor running the dual VCT and electronic throttle. That would be my dream retrotech.
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Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 11:33 am 
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Dansedgli wrote:
Atomic performance makes them. They are $450.

With your user name being Proflash can I assume you have something to do with flash tuning?

Have you had any experience retro fitting a BA ECU? When I was asking around a lot of people said it could be done but when asked to do it they couldnt follow through.


have to give brad a call!!!!

yes i flash most cars and have done so for years

yes i can do it but not worth the effort your better off with your autronic if its going to work and a cable but thats just imho!!!

 

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Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 11:35 am 
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xcabbi wrote:
Atomic pretty much make everything except for Ford I6 aluminium blocks :D.

And I'd also love to know if the BA/BF ECU can be used in a pre BA conversion. Can you imagine a TC/TD cortina with a full house BF motor running the dual VCT and electronic throttle. That would be my dream retrotech.


been done already into a te a guy called loui now finishing one off!!!

 

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Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 11:49 am 
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Cool, well Ill try out the cam gears first and see how they go.

Autronic were supposed to release a new version of the SM4 last month that works with the standard cam sensor and cam teeth setup. I wonder if it has come out yet.
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Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 12:07 pm 
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Any ideas how poorly the BA motor will run with the DVCT disconnected so both cams advance and lock 10 degrees?

I wont be able to get the cam gears in there for a few weeks. Will there be much of a power difference?

The BA manual only says the car will run rough.
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Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 3:17 pm 
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Dansedgli wrote:
Any ideas how poorly the BA motor will run with the DVCT disconnected so both cams advance and lock 10 degrees?

I wont be able to get the cam gears in there for a few weeks. Will there be much of a power difference?

The BA manual only says the car will run rough.


tried it before did not run rough but lacked top end by 10-20%

probibly better to sort your low rpm tuning then you have a base for when the gears get there

 

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Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 3:26 pm 
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Ah okay, that sounds alright then.

Ill let you know how I get on. Im going to try and get it running by next weekend.
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