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EB or EF engine for 65 Mustang 

 

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 Post subject: EB or EF engine for 65 Mustang
Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2015 6:57 am 
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Age: 60

Posts: 14

Joined: 27th May 2010

Ride: Ford/Mustang 1965

Location: Hurricane, WV
Oustide Australia

I live in the USA and have always been interested in the Australian I6. I own a 65 Mustang coupe with a 200/3spd that will soon have a 250 2V head and T5. My Mustang will only be driven in warm weather to cruise-ins and shows.

I have the opportunity to purchase a 4.0L from either an EB or EF. They both have an auto ECU, engine harness, front ancillaries (PS pump, alternator, AC pump), auto bellhousing, starter, and comparable price/mileage/shape. My plan is to install the engine in my Mustang but with a T5.

I realize that I would have to notch the left shock tower for the EF engine to accommodate the BBM, but don't know if that would be necessary for the EB log manifold. If the shock tower needs to be modified for both engines, wouldn't the EF engine be a better choice because of the 12 counterweighted crank and 9kW power increase? With having to install a J3 chip, or resistors in the harness to use the T5, could I just trash the EFI system and go with a Aussiespeed manifold and carb? Getting rid of the EF BBM would also negate the shock tower notching.

I'm looking for input/opinions/flaming to help me decide.

Thanks in advance.

 

_________________

Dan

Currently Own
1965 Mustang, 200CID, 3Spd
1964 Corvair Coupe, 164CID, 140HP, 4Spd
2017 BMW X3, 3.0L Turbo, 300HP, 8-Spd Auto

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 Post subject: Re: EB or EF engine for 65 Mustang
Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2015 1:55 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Location: Brisbane
QLD, Australia

Dan.

The Later engines are better balanced. you can even use the EB Manifold on the EF/EL Engine if you were worried about notching. If you do that, you could use an EL ECU, running XH Ute Firmware (and distributor) which will work with the Log Manifold, and give you Thermo fan Control as well

The J3 Chip isnt a bad thing - you'll see that TIPerformance here does a package for $not much, which allows you to put the manual tune onto the Auto ECU. Easy as.

Your other considerations would be if you want coil packs (EF) or Dizzy (EB, EL)

Tuning is fairly well covered for them (again, the TIperformance.com.au web site).

You have Other Great J3 chip options there as well - moates.net including the quarterhorse.

Nigel
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 Post subject: Re: EB or EF engine for 65 Mustang
Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2015 6:04 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Posts: 496

Joined: 14th Sep 2011

Ride: BF II Gas Ute

Location: Canberra
ACT, Australia

Hello,

Another engine you could install is an alloy cross-flow head 6. With the Weber Carb, it would go well and still be quite different. Other than the dizzy, there would be no electronics. The DOHC Turbo would be another great engine. For a SOHC, the AU engine is worth a look.

There was also an EFI cross-flow 6, I would look for an engine which will fit without any bodywork. It all depends on what is available and the price.

 

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 Post subject: Re: EB or EF engine for 65 Mustang
Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 12:07 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Posts: 836

Joined: 1st Apr 2005

Gallery: 4 images

Ride: EF XR6 Wagon, AU2 XR6 VCT

Power: 148 rwkw

Location: Auckland
New Zealand

It sounds like you are onto a winner! A box-stock EF engine with free-flowing intake and exhaust and a J3 chip tuned for high octane pump gas, you should expect about 170kw/225hp at the crank. Putting this with a 5-speed into a Mustang weighing probably less than 2600lbs/1180kgs would give it impressive performance. The six would also give better front/rear balance and handling than the same car with the 289 - though that's all relative when talking about a 50 year old car :) .

In choosing between the EB and EF, not only is the EF smoother, but the BBM gives it much more torque at lower revs. Their peak power is in the same ball park, but the fatter torque curve makes the EF noticeably livelier in normal driving, while the EB would feel a bit peakier.

If you get the performance bug, get the Tickford head, cam, fuel pressure regulator and ECU from an XR6 (all factory kit), shave the head for compression, install headers, and have the J3 chip tuned to suit. You would have probably 190kw/255hp. That's approaching 10lbs/hp power/weight ratio! Smooth, fuel efficient, out-of-the-ordinary, and enough grunt to show more than few V8s your taillights. :D

 

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95 EF XR6 wagon, 17" FTRs, DBA, QFM, KYB/Koni, AU block, ported EF head, SS Inductions, Territory intake, MLS gasket, milled, Franklin RH24B cam, Coby headers, no cat, Tickford 2.5", 2800rpm stall, J3 chip

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 Post subject: Re: EB or EF engine for 65 Mustang
Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 1:55 pm 
Technical Contributor
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Age: 60

Posts: 6817

Joined: 22nd Jun 2005

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Ride: EF Fairmont

Location: Campbelltown
NSW, Australia

I live in the USA and have always been interested in the Australian I6. I own a 65 Mustang coupe with a 200/3spd that will soon have a 250 2V head and T5. My Mustang will only be driven in warm weather to cruise-ins and shows.

Interesting that you want a six instead of the V8 :D. Not the usual US thing.

I have the opportunity to purchase a 4.0L from either an EB or EF. They both have an auto ECU, engine harness, front ancillaries (PS pump, alternator, AC pump), auto bellhousing, starter, and comparable price/mileage/shape. My plan is to install the engine in my Mustang but with a T5.

Could I ask where you are getting them from. Unusual for the US to have these.

I realize that I would have to notch the left shock tower for the EF engine to accommodate the BBM, but don't know if that would be necessary for the EB log manifold. If the shock tower needs to be modified for both engines, wouldn't the EF engine be a better choice because of the 12 counterweighted crank and 9kW power increase? With having to install a J3 chip, or resistors in the harness to use the T5, could I just trash the EFI system and go with a Aussiespeed manifold and carb? Getting rid of the EF BBM would also negate the shock tower notching.

The EF Bottom End would be the better option due to being balanced better. You could ditch the EFI if you want and fit the Aussespeed intake, use a 2 barrel or you could even ue a small 4 barrel Carb.
Depending on the price, grab both engines and fit the dizzy to the EF block.
You could set the whole engine up old school with no ECU and set up just the way your current 200ci six is. If you are fitting the T5, you will need to look for a bellhousing to suit.
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 Post subject: Re: EB or EF engine for 65 Mustang
Posted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 2:53 am 
Fordmods Newbie
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Age: 60

Posts: 14

Joined: 27th May 2010

Ride: Ford/Mustang 1965

Location: Hurricane, WV
Oustide Australia

Thanks all for the feedback. I'm leaning toward the EF engine because of the better balanced bottom end.

I've always liked six cylinder engines. My first car, also a 65 Mustang, had a 6cyl. Here in the US, almost everyone with a 6cyl classic Mustangs switches over to a V8. I just like to be different.

Australian I6 engines are not very common in the US. I'm a member of the fordsix.com forum with a few guys that have 4.1 Crossflows, OHC 4.0, and maybe a Barra or two. Between the Crossflow and OHC, isn't it easier to get more performance out of the OHC than the Crossflow?

There is a company that imports Australian Ford Cleveland engine parts (blocks, heads, intakes, cranks) and they bring a few 6 cylinders across every now and then; they have the E series engines that I am considering. The company is on the opposite side of the country, so getting both would be expensive: I have to choose just one.

Again, thanks for the input.

 

_________________

Dan

Currently Own
1965 Mustang, 200CID, 3Spd
1964 Corvair Coupe, 164CID, 140HP, 4Spd
2017 BMW X3, 3.0L Turbo, 300HP, 8-Spd Auto

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 Post subject: Re: EB or EF engine for 65 Mustang
Posted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 5:23 am 
Getting Side Ways
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Posts: 496

Joined: 14th Sep 2011

Ride: BF II Gas Ute

Location: Canberra
ACT, Australia

Hello,

A strong 6 in a light Car will go fine. There is a bit of irony in that the Falcon was the Car the Mustang was based on. A friend from high school had a Maverick, which ended up with Falcon running gear. Have you thought about triple Weber Carbs ? It would have some go, and sound like nothing else. It would surprise many when they see an engine they are not expecting in your Car. Given the age of the engine, now over 20 years that you are thinking about, they are still cheap here and it could be worth getting some extra spares while they are cheap. ( alloy head ) You dont want it off the road waiting for a part. Or a stupid price for a small part like the thermostat housing. Good luck with it, I hope to see some Pics of it.

 

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