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EBII Cranks but won't start (can't be tfi again?) 

 

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 Post subject: EBII Cranks but won't start (can't be tfi again?)
Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2016 3:43 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Joined: 4th May 2007

Ride: 1992 EBII Fairmont

Location: Aga
VIC, Australia

G'day fellas

My EBII 4.0 is playing up and won't start. I drove it home yesterday and out of the blue this morning it will turn over but not fire up. Every relevant part is essentially new and genuine (TFI/dizzy/coil/cap/leads/plugs/fuel pump). There were no warning signs before this happened the car was running flawless. I parked it woke up and just no go. There's no coolant leaking over the tfi, no metal shards in the dizzy shaft. Makes me wonder if someone salted my fuel tank :lol:

I tried a spare dizzy and my old semi stuffed spare tfi and no good. I grounded a spark lead to earth and I get a strong steady blue spark (but only 1 spark a second or so when cranking?) it seemed awfully slow but otherwise steady, consistent and strong.

It's getting fuel in the cylinder as well... has air, fuel, spark but doesn't even splutter now, it sounds exactly the same as when you do a compression test. This morning it was at least almost starting/spluttering (much like when a dizzy is 180deg out), it actually ran barely for 2 seconds when I cranked it and held my foot in. Fuel pump is priming strong everytime when I turn they key.

Was wondering what my best bet might be.. I feel like it could be the TFI again but it's brand new (and no good reason for it to be the tfi). I used arctic silver 5 thermal compound when I replaced it and all the proper nonsense etc. If I could establish the spark is healthy and maybe the fuel pressure then that's all there is, I can't think of anything else :|

Since it's getting spark to the cylinders wouldn't that rule out the coil/tfi? Any random ideas would be much appreciated :) Cheers!!
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 Post subject: Re: EBII Cranks but won't start (can't be tfi again?)
Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2016 6:08 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Posts: 594

Joined: 4th May 2007

Ride: 1992 EBII Fairmont

Location: Aga
VIC, Australia

I bought an inline coil tester. Getting lots of spark between the coil and dizzy cap. Coil is fine. Getting very weak and slow yellow spark in the tester between the dizzy cap and spark plugs.

Think it's the TFI but could be Hall sensor? dizzy cap/rotor? Fusable links? I read if the TFI is stuffed the fuel pump won't prime (and it does prime) and the coil won't even spark as the tfi is what sends the signal to the coil. Should have it sorted soon hopefully!
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 Post subject: Re: EBII Cranks but won't start (can't be tfi again?)
Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2016 10:18 pm 
Parts Gopher
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Age: 63

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Joined: 4th Feb 2016

Location: australia
VIC, Australia

I am assuming you pulled a plug out and it was wet with fuel, not because you heard the fuel pump prime when you turned the key on. When you turn the key on the ecu will put a ground on pin 22 fuel pump ground for two seconds, if it dos not receive a pip signal from the hall sensor it will remove the ground, so we know the hall sensor is working because you have spark. The important question is was the plugs wet with fuel. If the plugs are not wet with fuel remove the cover on the passenger side kick panel unscrew the ecu ground, remove the plastic cover off the ecu and connect the ground wire back up and check the signal wire with a volt meter, pin 47 for the throttle position switch, if it is stuck on 3.5 volts or more the engine won't start it will be in clear flood mode, it should be around 1 volt closed throttle key on. If that is too hard give it a squirt of propane, and if it starts check the throttle position switch.
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 Post subject: Re: EBII Cranks but won't start (can't be tfi again?)
Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2016 12:32 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Posts: 594

Joined: 4th May 2007

Ride: 1992 EBII Fairmont

Location: Aga
VIC, Australia

Yeah mate, I pulled one of the plugs and it's definitely getting fuel. I just replaced the tfi (spent 100 bucks :shock: ) and it hasn't fixed the problem. It's getting strong spark from the coil, but weak spark at the leads/plugs.

Cap/rotor/leads/aux shaft are fine I've tried 2 dizzy's and 3 tfi's! I don't get what else would cause weak spark there's nothing else between the coil and the sparkplug besides those things
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 Post subject: Re: EBII Cranks but won't start (can't be tfi again?)
Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2016 7:44 pm 
Parts Gopher
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Age: 63

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Joined: 4th Feb 2016

Location: australia
VIC, Australia

What is the battery voltage dropping to when you crank the engine, and check it at the tfi third pin down from the top of the module which is crank signal, and the fourth pin down which is key power. You won't get the same spark as strong at the coil and then at a spark plug lead with high resistance in the lead.
Without an oscilloscope the easiest way for someone to check coil output is with a copper jumper lead,
if you connect it to the coil and get some one to crank the engine, and if it can jump half an inch to the block there is nothing wrong with the coil output, same with a spark plug lead from the cap. In your first post you say it sounds like your doing a compression test when you crank it over can you describe that a bit better.
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 Post subject: Re: EBII Cranks but won't start (can't be tfi again?)
Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 4:25 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Posts: 594

Joined: 4th May 2007

Ride: 1992 EBII Fairmont

Location: Aga
VIC, Australia

Cheers Rod, From what I can tell the battery voltage drops same as always (looking at cluster gauge). I can't check the pins atm as I don't have someone else here to crank the car. I put a test lamp on the injectors and they are receiving pulse, fuel pressure is fine. Spark looked a lot better last night after I put a spare coil in, now it's as slow as it was before. I recorded them both and spark at the lead was more rapid last night :?

I can get it started only with my foot fully flat to the floor. I take it off and it dies instantly. What I meant by compression test is there's no attempt at it even starting, no splutter/cough or anything foot has to be flat to the floor for it to fire up.
Swear it would usually be the tfi given the slow spark rate at the leads but tried 3 of every part from coil to plug. Just checked the fuel pump it's running constantly as the car cranks, still no go.
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 Post subject: Re: EBII Cranks but won't start (can't be tfi again?)
Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 6:43 pm 
Parts Gopher
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Age: 63

Posts: 85

Joined: 4th Feb 2016

Location: australia
VIC, Australia

Have a look on the bottom of the inlet manifold and see if the booster hose or the pcv hose has come off creating a massive air leak.
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 Post subject: Re: EBII Cranks but won't start (can't be tfi again?)
Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 8:14 pm 
Parts Gopher
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Age: 63

Posts: 85

Joined: 4th Feb 2016

Location: australia
VIC, Australia

When the engine started did it sound like it was flooded, did it belch out black smoke, or did it sound even, or lean and lumpy. Usually If you have to hold the throttle to the floor the engine is flooded.
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 Post subject: Re: EBII Cranks but won't start (can't be tfi again?)
Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 9:10 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Joined: 22nd Jan 2009

Ride: '91 EB Wagoon

Location: Geeelong
VIC, Australia

ILLaViTaR wrote:
Just checked the fuel pump it's running constantly as the car cranks, still no go.



from what i understand .. fuel pump should not be running constantly
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