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EBII (Pre Smartlock) No Spark. I have read all I can! Help!! 

 

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 Post subject: EBII (Pre Smartlock) No Spark. I have read all I can! Help!!
Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 7:59 pm 
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Hi,
Last week my son's 7/92 EBII simply died on the way home from work. He and I pushed it up the road to home. When we checked, there was no Spark... Owing to the amount of work to be done on the car, he picked up another EBII (93 model) for either restore or parts... As the engine in the 93 model had some bottom end knocks, we decided to try and get his older car up and running... So far I have replaced the Coil (new), Distributor Cap and Rotor (both new). We took the Dizzy from the other car (but was running very rough). Nothing so far has worked.

I went to the local wreckers and picked up a second hand ECU, but all they had was one out of an EA (3.9 injected version). Didn't make any difference... I read one post that said it should work Ok...

I have power to the Coil and power to both red wires on the TFI Module plug. Could I be unlucky enough to have 2 distributors that have crook TFI modules??? It is the only thing left that isn't new!

I am at the end of my rope with this matter... I have also pulled and replaced all the relays and fuseable links around the engine bay...

I have read every post via google search on this matter... Help Please....

If it is the distributor, is there anyone in Canberra around the north side who has a good second hand unit I can buy at a reasonable price??? I need to get my son back on the road ASAP... And I want my sanity back :!: :? :? :?

Last edited by Steviej on Mon Sep 06, 2010 8:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: EBII (Pre Smartlock) No Spark. I have read all I can! Help!!
Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 8:01 pm 
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ignition module?

is the gear inside the engine that runs the distributor still in one piece

 

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 Post subject: Re: EBII (Pre Smartlock) No Spark. I have read all I can! Help!!
Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 8:06 pm 
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From what I could see this arvo, yes...
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 Post subject: Re: EBII (Pre Smartlock) No Spark. I have read all I can! Help!!
Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 8:07 pm 
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When you say Ignition Module??? What part is that??? I have replaced all I know of.
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 Post subject: Re: EBII (Pre Smartlock) No Spark. I have read all I can! Help!!
Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 8:10 pm 
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grey module on the side of the dizzy. and being a EB2 i though it'd have smartlock

 

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 Post subject: Re: EBII (Pre Smartlock) No Spark. I have read all I can! Help!!
Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 8:17 pm 
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you have checked spark at the coil lead? (Not plug 1 as you wont see it if it the dizzy isn't on 1)?

Funny you mention this because I'm just making a tester which identifies the problem part... Be at the end of my build thread in my signature down bellow, but they aren't ready to be mass produced/ sold yet but I'll share what I've picked up learning about this tester...

You have the PIP which is Profile Ignition Pickup which is a fancy name for the hall effect inside the dizzy... You have the TFI which is Thick Film Ignition which is the outside dizzy module and you have the coil... If you have no spark its one of these components...

So as long as your sure at the coil lead you've got no spark...

The tester I built simulates the PIP signal... If the coil is brand new then you can rule that out... Common for the TFI module to get too hot and fry its bits... if you remove it from the dizzy there should be thermal paste behind it for heat transfer if it has disappeared on your non functioning dizzy them I dare say you did a TFI... But it the dizzy in it now ran the other car than I;d doubt its that... Maybe you've lost power to the TFI module? If you unplug it and check the plug with a pin and test light, one red wire is "on" power and the other red wire is crank power (only power when held to start)...

Failing that, without test gear I'd check the coil - wire... This will require you plug the TFI plug back in, piece the coil negative wire with your test lamp (must be a filament type lamp, not LED) which is the pink wire and hook your other end of the test lead to positive power and try cranking it, if your test light flickers then its grounding out the coil and there should be spark happening... (the pink wire in the signle pin wire plug ontop of the throttle body is the same coil - wire which might be easier to get to)... If this is the case then there might not be supply to the coil or you got a newe faulty coil...

Um thats about all that comes to mind at the moment... see how you go and come back with feedback if you have any?

Cheers,
Tim

 

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 Post subject: Re: EBII (Pre Smartlock) No Spark. I have read all I can! Help!!
Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 9:22 pm 
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For WILDEB, Smartlock was introduced @ Sept 92 I believe... My son's model is Jul 92...

Hi Tim,
I have checked number 1 but by several cranks of the engine to ensure it goes past 1... As for power, I mentioned in my earlier post that I have checked the 2 red wires on the TFI socket... I have constant power to one lead and power to the second red on cranking the engine...

I pulled the wire off the back of the coil and have power to the coil and as I mentioned, it it brand spanking new...

In desperation, I pulled the TFI off the unit that came out of the newer one we purchased, which was running, but very rough... There was Thermal Paste on both of the units, but not a lot...

Is there a possibility that it is the ECU??? Would the fact I have an EA ECU be causing any problems???

I really appreciate any help with this.
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 Post subject: Re: EBII (Pre Smartlock) No Spark. I have read all I can! Help!!
Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 9:46 pm 
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Checked to make sure the coil - wire is going to ground?

Must have missed that bit about power to those wires... My bad there...

I reckon it would seem to be unusual that its the computer... CPFI falcons used different base timing from memory, but still had a TFI module, and base timing is set by where the dizzy is bolted to, not in the EEC...

Not sure... :S

Cheers,
Tim

 

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Performance: Complete AUII VCT Wiring & Power Train, Pacey Headers, 2.5" Exhaust, Exedy Clutch, DBA Rotors
Visuals: FG XR Wheel, XR Front, 17's, BA 5 Spd Shifter, BA Ghia Window Switches, NL Cluster
Tunes: 8" Pioneer Sub, JBL Speakers, Clarion Double DIN Headunit

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 Post subject: Re: EBII (Pre Smartlock) No Spark. I have read all I can! Help!!
Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 9:59 pm 
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When you say make sure the coil wire is going to ground??? Where does it ground. All I can see is a single clip that goes to the back of the coil unit. Is this the wire you are talking about???
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 Post subject: Re: EBII (Pre Smartlock) No Spark. I have read all I can! Help!!
Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 10:09 pm 
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Yeah you have two wires... 1 is power like you said you checked... The second the TFI grounds which makes a circuit through the primary in the coil and allows it to magnetise... When the TFI un-grounds it the magnetic field colapses and this induces into the secondary winding in the coil and gives you the spark...

where the throttle body is the is a white single pin plug that clips to it there somewhere, there is a pink wire in the plug (Only wire in it)... this is the coil neg to the tacho... if you piece the insulation with your filament bulb test light (LED tester wont work) and hook your clamp off your light to the positive battery, when you crank you should see the light coming on and off (flickering) this indicates everything is working and it is indeed ground the coil to make it charge... if it doesn't flicker you can guess the coil is OK and its back to PIP TFI or EEC that is the problem...

Sort of make sense? :?

Cheers,
Tim

 

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93 Red ED 5spd Manual Build Thread

Performance: Complete AUII VCT Wiring & Power Train, Pacey Headers, 2.5" Exhaust, Exedy Clutch, DBA Rotors
Visuals: FG XR Wheel, XR Front, 17's, BA 5 Spd Shifter, BA Ghia Window Switches, NL Cluster
Tunes: 8" Pioneer Sub, JBL Speakers, Clarion Double DIN Headunit

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 Post subject: Re: EBII (Pre Smartlock) No Spark. I have read all I can! Help!!
Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 10:55 pm 
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When you mention the single pink wire near the Throttle Body... I take it that it isthe one next to the ISC Solenoid??? It goes into a plastic joiner that bolts onto the ISC. I have bared the wire and put my test light on it.

When the key is off, the light is on. When the key is turned, I hear a relay click and the light goes off. When the engine is cranking, the light dims, but does not flash or go off, until the key is released, then it goes off... Any thoughts with these results???
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 Post subject: Re: EBII (Pre Smartlock) No Spark. I have read all I can! Help!!
Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 10:59 pm 
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it may not go completely out while cranking but should see it clearly flicker...

If it doesn't your assuming its before the coil, So PIP, TFI or EEC... Seems weird that everything worked in the other car but doesn't now... Did you try to swap the computers out of curiosity?

Cheer,s
Tim

 

_________________

93 Red ED 5spd Manual Build Thread

Performance: Complete AUII VCT Wiring & Power Train, Pacey Headers, 2.5" Exhaust, Exedy Clutch, DBA Rotors
Visuals: FG XR Wheel, XR Front, 17's, BA 5 Spd Shifter, BA Ghia Window Switches, NL Cluster
Tunes: 8" Pioneer Sub, JBL Speakers, Clarion Double DIN Headunit

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 Post subject: Re: EBII (Pre Smartlock) No Spark. I have read all I can! Help!!
Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 11:08 pm 
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The light only went dim... It didn't flicker at all, just dull...

I couldn't use the ECU from the 93 model as it has Smartlock and my son's car doesn't and would need a bypass for it to work, otherwise immobilised!

I am assuming that the EEC and the ECU are one and the same???

As I mentioned, I could only try the unit from the EA in the car...

I don't think the term Weird even comes close with this???
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 Post subject: Re: EBII (Pre Smartlock) No Spark. I have read all I can! Help!!
Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 11:13 pm 
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oh thats right... smartlock :roll:

Yeah EEC is what Ford call it... Just ECU, PCM, Computer, EEC all the same thing depending who you talk to and what they call it...

I'd still be leaning on dizzy be it inner or outer module or both... I've never seen the computer cause no spark...

You can remove and test the TFI module and compare it to this:
http://351winsor.com/joel/Ignition_Systems/tfi2.html

Also tells how to test for PIP signal too..

Try them and let us know what you come up with out of curiosity?

Cheers,
Tim

 

_________________

93 Red ED 5spd Manual Build Thread

Performance: Complete AUII VCT Wiring & Power Train, Pacey Headers, 2.5" Exhaust, Exedy Clutch, DBA Rotors
Visuals: FG XR Wheel, XR Front, 17's, BA 5 Spd Shifter, BA Ghia Window Switches, NL Cluster
Tunes: 8" Pioneer Sub, JBL Speakers, Clarion Double DIN Headunit

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 Post subject: Re: EBII (Pre Smartlock) No Spark. I have read all I can! Help!!
Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 11:36 pm 
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Hi Tim,
Last one for tonight... I dragged my son out into the cold (it's his car, why not!!!) and put my test light onto the top wire of the TFI plug (mine is brown, not blue as per the site description)...

My son turned it over, but got no light flashing at all...

I couldn't do the first test as I don't have the test equipment...

Cheers
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