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EF valvetrain noise 977B 

 

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 Post subject: Re: EF Valvetrain Noise after 977B install and au Head gasket
Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 8:03 am 
Getting Side Ways
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ok so i had exactly the same problem
wrong springs where used which caused major valve float
read my build thread for things to look at
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 Post subject: Re: EF Valvetrain Noise after 977B install and au Head gasket
Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 11:35 am 
Getting Side Ways
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i assume the top chain guide was replaced because it snapped when removing the head?

when the timing cover was removed to replace the guide, i wonder if the bottom guide fell into the sump and was never replaced?
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 Post subject: Re: EF Valvetrain Noise after 977B install and au Head gasket
Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 6:51 pm 
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dc_todd wrote:
where abouts in Sydney are you, there may be a member close by who is happy to stick their head under your bonnet to help you diagnose further.


Yeah i hope so that would be heaps good half my problem is trying to find someone besides ford who know these engines well. Im just plain running out of ideas and getting tired of pullin the motor apart then putting it back together to see if what i did fixed it. Wouldnt be so bad if it wasnt my daily.

Im in castle hill so northwest.

 

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 Post subject: Re: EF Valvetrain Noise after 977B install and au Head gasket
Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 6:53 pm 
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FordFairmont wrote:
i assume the top chain guide was replaced because it snapped when removing the head?

when the timing cover was removed to replace the guide, i wonder if the bottom guide fell into the sump and was never replaced?


The guide was snapped already and looked like it had been for quite some time. We were careful not to drop the lower guide when reoving and replacing the cover, and im pretty sure that i can see it through the top of the timing cover. But i suppose i could check it to be 100% sure ill try anything.

FordFairmont wrote:
i assume the top chain guide was replaced because it snapped when removing the head?

when the timing cover was removed to replace the guide, i wonder if the bottom guide fell into the sump and was never replaced?


The guide was snapped already and looked like it had been for quite some time. We were careful not to drop the lower guide when reoving and replacing the cover, and im pretty sure that i can see it through the top of the timing cover. But i suppose i could check it to be 100% sure ill try anything.

 

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F6 Typhoon Silhouette with Dark Argent rims, build P0001. Stock as a rock and staying that way.

Now sold :( Cobalt blue EF XR6, Pacemaker 4499s, 2.5" redback catback, intake, head shaved, wade 977b, crow valve springs, pedders suspension.

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 Post subject: Re: EF Valvetrain Noise after 977B install and au Head gasket
Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 4:01 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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i bet it doesn't make as much noise as mine atm..lol. both my guides are f**k and chain rattles like a truck..

dude come down to harry's tonight!

 

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 Post subject: Re: EF Valvetrain Noise after 977B install and au Head gasket
Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 11:25 pm 
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Right so the otehr day i got hold of a stocker tickford cam and today i got a chance to wack it in. When i put it in i just held up the cam sproket and didnt touch any of the timing gear.

Now the noise is GONE :D But unfortunatly so is the top end power.
That rules out the timing chain, and the tappets themselves.

So why is the 977b cam causing the tappets to be noisy as f**k? I added the extra shim as wade told me to and apart from that nothing else is different. So progress in a way atleast i know where the noise is coming from... Any ideas?

 

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F6 Typhoon Silhouette with Dark Argent rims, build P0001. Stock as a rock and staying that way.

Now sold :( Cobalt blue EF XR6, Pacemaker 4499s, 2.5" redback catback, intake, head shaved, wade 977b, crow valve springs, pedders suspension.

Last edited by bennomate on Fri Mar 04, 2011 1:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: EF Valvetrain Noise after 977B install and au Head gasket
Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 11:39 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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It is possible that the valve springs are not up to the task, they do go soft over time.
I dont think there has been any issues with chain rattle from any 977B's... I dont know if I missed it but was a new chain tensioner fitted with the new guides?

 

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 Post subject: Re: EF Valvetrain Noise after 977B install and au Head gasket
Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 11:43 pm 
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krisisdog wrote:
It is possible that the valve springs are not up to the task, they do go soft over time.
I dont think there has been any issues with chain rattle from any 977B's... I dont know if I missed it but was a new chain tensioner fitted with the new guides?


They are xr6 springs but i guess they would go soft too. The motor has 200000kms on it, enough to weaken them for noise @2000 rpm? No i didn't think to replace the tensoner its the same one as came out of the factory. But there is no noise with the stock cam. Ive heard of chain rattle with DEV5s and other big cams like that but not with the 977bs either.

Can i test the springs without replacing them?

 

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F6 Typhoon Silhouette with Dark Argent rims, build P0001. Stock as a rock and staying that way.

Now sold :( Cobalt blue EF XR6, Pacemaker 4499s, 2.5" redback catback, intake, head shaved, wade 977b, crow valve springs, pedders suspension.

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 Post subject: Re: EF Valvetrain Noise after 977B install and au Head gasket
Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 12:03 am 
Getting Side Ways
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I'd try a new tensioner first, should be cheap considering a whole chain/guide/tensioner kit is 70 or 90 bux last time I bought one.
And yeh its entirely possible the springs have gone soft, XR or otherwise.
They can be tested while both on the head and removed.

 

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 Post subject: Re: EF Valvetrain Noise after 977B install and au Head gasket
Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 12:13 am 
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krisisdog wrote:
I'd try a new tensioner first, should be cheap considering a whole chain/guide/tensioner kit is 70 or 90 bux last time I bought one.
And yeh its entirely possible the springs have gone soft, XR or otherwise.
They can be tested while both on the head and removed.


Ahh ok. But if the tensioner holds for the stock cam howcome it wouldnt for the other cam? Pulling that timing cover off is so annoying id like to avoid that if possible...

I spoke to a mate who is a mechanic by trade and he reckons that weak valvesprings shouldnt cause noise but would cause high RPM valve float. And it runs relatively smooth at high RPM. So its either SOMEHOW the tensioner (but only with the new cam... , or the cam itself which i doubt but there isnt much else :? .

 

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F6 Typhoon Silhouette with Dark Argent rims, build P0001. Stock as a rock and staying that way.

Now sold :( Cobalt blue EF XR6, Pacemaker 4499s, 2.5" redback catback, intake, head shaved, wade 977b, crow valve springs, pedders suspension.

Last edited by bennomate on Mon Mar 07, 2011 11:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: EF Valvetrain Noise after 977B install and au Head gasket
Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 2:28 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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When you put the stock cam in did you remove the shims that you installed for the 977b ?
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 Post subject: Re: EF Valvetrain Noise after 977B install and au Head gasket
Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 1:32 am 
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with the wade 977b you pretty much need heavy duty valve springs.. i put a 977b in my ef xr6 engine with the xr6 springs and after a week or so i was getting the same sound your talking about, turns out my springs wernt up to the job.. crow sell heavy valve springs for about $150 of ebay, will make your car quieter and your cam should run properly with them.
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 Post subject: Re: EF Valvetrain Noise after 977B install and au Head gasket
Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:17 am 
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MMD wrote:
When you put the stock cam in did you remove the shims that you installed for the 977b ?


did you??

 

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 Post subject: Re: EF Valvetrain Noise after 977B install and au Head gasket
Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 1:12 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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My el has a similar noise , around 2000rpm mine makes a grind noise it's fair quiet tho, I think it might be a pulley, then around 4000-5000rpm it makes a winding noise it sounds like the chain , but my chain is tensioned good, I think it's just a normal noise that every engine makes when it hits high rpm. It kinda sounds like a supercharger lol

I think I need new xr valve springs.

 

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 Post subject: Re: EF Valvetrain Noise after 977B install and au Head gasket
Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 1:31 pm 
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Cant remember where i read it, on here somewhere, xr (or standard falcon valve springs) are not up to the job of a 977b. Even the wade website says this. Valve springs can lose a lot of compressive strength even after the first use. I would be looking into some aftermarket valve springs (crow offer double valve springs which are rated a fair bit higher than the standard ones). I think the crow doubles were 130lb valve springs? i think the xr ones are 100lb?

 

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