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EF valvetrain noise 977B 

 

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 Post subject: Re: EF Valvetrain Noise after 977B install and au Head gasket
Posted: Fri May 27, 2011 3:08 am 
Oompa Loompa
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Location: mildura
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why dont u just get new lifters? fixed my noise
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 Post subject: Re: EF Valvetrain Noise after 977B install and au Head gasket
Posted: Fri May 27, 2011 3:16 pm 
Parts Gopher
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Ride: F6 Typhoon

Location: North West Sydney
NSW, Australia

wattie wrote:
why dont u just get new lifters? fixed my noise

Yeah got brand new lifters when I originally did the work to the car. I thought they were the cause so
I put a different brand and still same noise so Its not the lifters themselves. Maybe too much clearance. If only I could rev the engine to 2000 with the rocker cover off then i could
See what was going on under there. Problem would
Be solved by now.

 

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F6 Typhoon Silhouette with Dark Argent rims, build P0001. Stock as a rock and staying that way.

Now sold :( Cobalt blue EF XR6, Pacemaker 4499s, 2.5" redback catback, intake, head shaved, wade 977b, crow valve springs, pedders suspension.

Last edited by bennomate on Sat May 28, 2011 1:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: EF Valvetrain Noise after 977B install and au Head gasket
Posted: Fri May 27, 2011 6:55 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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i knew the pics i took of lifter gear would come in handy :D (previous page)

what shims are you using?
you should only need 2 standard shims.
its not worth f**k around with custom this and that.
if it doesn't work with 2 standard shims there are problems with the cam.

 

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XG Panelvan
mild engine, EL ECU & J3, HI6 & MSD coil

in the shed - .595" lift cam, GT4202, forged AU engine, ems 4424 ecu, glide & 5500 stall - next-bellhousing

XH ute daily - DOHC BA XR6 engine, T5, AU3 ECU, J3 chip, wideband & logger, ported BBM, 3" intake

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 Post subject: Re: EF Valvetrain Noise after 977B install and au Head gasket
Posted: Sun May 29, 2011 10:59 am 
Getting Side Ways
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If the specified shimming is 3x1mm washers - then if you can afford it, single 3mm HARDENED shims are a better way to go than stacked washers from the local hardware - which in anyones language is a f***ing half a*** way to do it...

But yes, if the SPECIFIED shimming doesn't work then there's something not right.

 

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96 EF Auto GLi - Bilstein Shocks - Adjustable Front sway bar - JMM Cam - TI Perf J3 - TCI 2500/3000 stall converter. 2015 Jeep Cherokee Trailhawk.

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 Post subject: Re: EF valvetrain noise 977B
Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 3:07 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Location: Melbourne
VIC, Australia

Old thread I know.

bennomate, did you end up fixing this problem?

I have what seems to be lifter/hla noise at around 2000rpm but not on start up or idle..

Cheers
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 Post subject: Re: EF valvetrain noise 977B
Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 12:31 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Hey something to make sure of is that you guys have been hearing mechanical rattle and not pinging... I mention that because when I first fitted up a J3 module I had SERIOUS pinging issues - interestingly enough right at around 2000rpm. It was so bad that it really sounded like a heap of the lifters going spaz and/or the chain thrashing about - but it was definitely pinging.

 

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96 EF Auto GLi - Bilstein Shocks - Adjustable Front sway bar - JMM Cam - TI Perf J3 - TCI 2500/3000 stall converter. 2015 Jeep Cherokee Trailhawk.

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 Post subject: Re: EF valvetrain noise 977B
Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 3:42 am 
Tyre Shredder
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Ride: EL Falcon

Power: 146 rwkw

Location: sydney
NSW, Australia

Ok i have had these issues when i first fitted my wade 977b cam. First things first piss those washers and put a set of original lash shims. Piss thoses washers off. You need 2 sets of lash shims.
Second you need to get lifters with that nylon washer on them. This is where i had trouble with lifters No after market lifter comes with it now. But i found a set with the nylon washer. ATOMIC sells them. The only company i found that sells lifters with the nylon washer on them and yea they are a anti pump up lifter aswell. The nylon washer helps keep oil there and not to bleed though the lifter.
Third thing is use Penrite Racing 50 engine oil. If you cannot afford this oil use the Penrite HPR15.
I don't exactly know why but i had chain noise at 2000rpm and thought it was because i had a shaved cylinder head aswell. I was using Nulon syn 15 (15w50) at the time. When i started to use Penrite Racing 15 (15x50) the noise went away.
This should work for you providing the work carried out previously was done correctly.
I did face all these issues except with the lash shims. I bought a set from ford when i first fitted my 977b cam. Hope this helps you. Good Luck.

 

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FORD EL 4.0L. Crow cam, T.I Performance J3 Chip, Vernier cam gear, CMS stage 3 head, 68mm TB, AU head gasket + ARP studs, AU injectors, Pacey 4480, High flow cat, Shift kit, Stallie, 3:73 TrueTrac.

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 Post subject: Re: EF valvetrain noise 977B
Posted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 7:50 pm 
Stock as a Rock
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NSW, Australia

Hey,
Does anyone know if you can buy the lifter retainers separately? also I was told the AU ones are steel, can anyone confirm?
I have just spent hours installing and dialing in my shiny new custom grind billet cam, 155lb springs, new timing set incl. tensioner and new lifters into my race prepped high compression head. :D
Fired it up and waited for the lifter rattle to die off, and waited, and waited.
After 15min or so it had only gotten slightly quieter at idle, and at around the magic 2000rpm mark it was so loud it actually left my ears ringing. :x
................F * * K..............

So, ripped it all apart again, double checked everything, checked clearances, all good. Back together again.
Dumped the 250km old Penrite 10-50 synthetic, and poured in a bottle of Penrite 15-60 Racing.
Fired it up again and within about 30 seconds was somewhat better at idle. Gave it a rev, F * * K! :x Stupid rattle.

I reckon most likely due to the high spring pressure, and ridiculously aggressive cam profile, combined with not having the retainers on the lifters, there is too much oil bleeding off from the lifter bores.
I was expecting some noise but this is crazy. I doubt the lifters themselves are the problem as they are all noisy, and I primed em up before I fitted them.
So, gotta find some retainers and give that a try. Once I get this sorted its off to the dyno to get it tuned, which should be interesting. It's got the fattest lumpiest idle I've ever heard from a 6.

BTW, for those interested, the reason big cams/springs cause chain rattle in these engines is as the rollers pass the nose of the lobes, the aggressive slope and spring pressure actually push the cam around hard enough to cause the chain to go slack until the crank catches up and pulls it tight again.

I

 

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Ported ED XR6 head shaved too much, AU gasket, custom Crow Cam, Pacemaker 4480's, 5-speed conversion, billet aluminium flywheel, GT clutch, T.I. Performance J3 chip, custom water/methanol injection, modified BA throttle body. Paint&Panel by Barbed Wire Fence.

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 Post subject: Re: EF valvetrain noise 977B
Posted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 8:25 pm 
Moderator
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Ride: ford falcon au3 xr8

Location: a shit suburb in sydney
NSW, Australia

yes, au factory lifters have spring steel retainers..
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 Post subject: Re: EF valvetrain noise 977B
Posted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 8:35 pm 
Tyre Shredder
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Posts: 346

Joined: 16th Jul 2007

Ride: EL Falcon

Power: 146 rwkw

Location: sydney
NSW, Australia

I'm telling you ATOMIC lifters. They are anti pump up lifters perfect for big cams like yours.

 

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FORD EL 4.0L. Crow cam, T.I Performance J3 Chip, Vernier cam gear, CMS stage 3 head, 68mm TB, AU head gasket + ARP studs, AU injectors, Pacey 4480, High flow cat, Shift kit, Stallie, 3:73 TrueTrac.

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 Post subject: Re: EF valvetrain noise 977B
Posted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 8:42 pm 
Tyre Shredder
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Age: 47

Posts: 346

Joined: 16th Jul 2007

Ride: EL Falcon

Power: 146 rwkw

Location: sydney
NSW, Australia

Yes you can buy the retainer kit. I have tryed this already but make sure you buy 2-3 sets they are a prick to fit. You might fit 5 but 7 will get damaged fitting. I bought mine from Bursons. Got fead up and found atomic had what i wanted.

 

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FORD EL 4.0L. Crow cam, T.I Performance J3 Chip, Vernier cam gear, CMS stage 3 head, 68mm TB, AU head gasket + ARP studs, AU injectors, Pacey 4480, High flow cat, Shift kit, Stallie, 3:73 TrueTrac.

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 Post subject: Re: EF valvetrain noise 977B
Posted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 8:53 pm 
Technical Contributor
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It will take more than 15-20 mins foe the lifters to pump up. Retainers will do nothing to staop the lifter rattle. Sometimes it can take a day or 2 for all of them to pump properly.
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 Post subject: Re: EF valvetrain noise 977B
Posted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 9:01 pm 
Stock as a Rock
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Ride: EF Fairmont

Location: Port Macquarie
NSW, Australia

Sweet as.
Don't really want to buy another set of lifters, the ones I fitted are brand new dynotec ones. They are apparently anti pump up.

Troyman, do you know if the spring steel ones fit EF rocker gear, I'm assuming they would.

Wish I knew about the Atomic ones a week ago. Oh well.

 

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Ported ED XR6 head shaved too much, AU gasket, custom Crow Cam, Pacemaker 4480's, 5-speed conversion, billet aluminium flywheel, GT clutch, T.I. Performance J3 chip, custom water/methanol injection, modified BA throttle body. Paint&Panel by Barbed Wire Fence.

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 Post subject: Re: EF valvetrain noise 977B
Posted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 9:12 pm 
Stock as a Rock
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Ride: EF Fairmont

Location: Port Macquarie
NSW, Australia

SWC,
Yeah, put about 40km on them this arvo, didn't seem to get any better.
Will give it a couple of days driving to work n see how it goes.
Might even throw the original ones back in if it doesn't get better, just to see if they are quieter.

 

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Ported ED XR6 head shaved too much, AU gasket, custom Crow Cam, Pacemaker 4480's, 5-speed conversion, billet aluminium flywheel, GT clutch, T.I. Performance J3 chip, custom water/methanol injection, modified BA throttle body. Paint&Panel by Barbed Wire Fence.

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 Post subject: Re: EF valvetrain noise 977B
Posted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 9:49 pm 
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Ride: ford falcon au3 xr8

Location: a shit suburb in sydney
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afaik yes they do, the lifters are the same, just au used a retainer that don't fall apart and can be re used.
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