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EL engine rebuild - high or low comp? 

 

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 Post subject: EL engine rebuild - high or low comp?
Posted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 11:31 pm 
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VIC, Australia

Hello guys, my engine in my EL is pushing about 125-135 across all cylinders, except cylinder 1 which is a low 110 psi, so i guess its time for a rebuild.

I've got the top end all sorted out, CMS Stage 3a head with a 2a cam, and the car is currently undergoing T5 conversion to liven it up a bit.

I want to rebuild the engine and I'm not sure if I should build it low comp for forced induction, or just run high comp N/A? Whats the highest comp I can go with N/A and still keep it running fine on 98? Its currently tuned for 98 making 138KW at the rears on a tired engine, has 235,000km on the clock.

The idea of high comp appeals to me because its easier to keep it all legal and my current exhaust and cam choice would be ideal, I'd like to keep it to a max of 5500 RPM as these things dont like revving out right?

Can you suggest me a parts list? What $$$ would I be looking at for a bottom end, the top end is all good.

Thanks much.
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 Post subject: Re: EL engine rebuild - high or low comp?
Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 4:15 pm 
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Ride: EL Fairmont, VFR400 racer

Power: 144 rwkw

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VIC, Australia

Damoo wrote:
Hello guys, my engine in my EL is pushing about 125-135 across all cylinders, except cylinder 1 which is a low 110 psi, so i guess its time for a rebuild.

I've got the top end all sorted out, CMS Stage 3a head with a 2a cam, and the car is currently undergoing T5 conversion to liven it up a bit.

I want to rebuild the engine and I'm not sure if I should build it low comp for forced induction, or just run high comp N/A? Whats the highest comp I can go with N/A and still keep it running fine on 98? Its currently tuned for 98 making 138KW at the rears on a tired engine, has 235,000km on the clock.

The idea of high comp appeals to me because its easier to keep it all legal and my current exhaust and cam choice would be ideal, I'd like to keep it to a max of 5500 RPM as these things dont like revving out right?

Can you suggest me a parts list? What $$$ would I be looking at for a bottom end, the top end is all good.

Thanks much.


If you don't plan on spending big money on force induction down the track, I'd say go for a high comp engine. It also depends how much power you want out of your engine...you can easily get 150rwkws with the right mods. Gezza is somewhere near 200rwkw N/A I believe (correct me here Gezza), cost wise I am not sure.

If you are going to go complete rebuild, these are the things you will need.

ACL Rebuild kit
AU MLS Gasket if you want to use that over ACL
AU head bolts
Gasket kit (for all the other gaskets)...Permaseal, ACL, Monotorque...whichever
Oil pump (if yours is rooted)
Timing Chain kit (might as well)
Welsh plugs - all of them
Water pump - usually can't remove the water pump without destroying the seal
Water pump pulley if it doesn't come with pump
Harmonic balancer - not necessary but meh

Then you have to get your block honed/bored if required, decked, acid washed. Head checked, straightened, valve seals replaced, valve reseated if required etc. Balancing of moving assembly is probably recommended, but maybe not necessary? I'd do it...I think I got quoted $300 or something on the crankshaft + flywheel (auto)

So in total for parts and the block/head stuff done, you'd be looking at around $2000 depending where you go and what you buy. Doing the assembling yourself.

If you want an engine specialist to do it all for you, looking at $3000+ easily.

I started a thread a while back when I had grand ideas of rebuilding my EL engine, but that went out the window. This is the thread

 

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phongus = Post whore 2006
EL XR6 motor, EL ECU + J3 chip, WADE 1673 Camshaft, 3" S/S intake, Pacy 4480, 2.5" Hi flow cat, 2.5" Lukey exhaust.
Max Power = 144.6 rwkw (03/05/2008)

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 Post subject: Re: EL engine rebuild - high or low comp?
Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 4:45 pm 
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If you are going to do a rebuild, start with an AU Short Motor, get the sump done and you will have a good solid bottom end with the stage 3 Head. Open her up about 20 thou and you will be laughing. 10:1 will see you fine on 98. 10.5:1 should be OK. Depends on the brand of 98.
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 Post subject: Re: EL engine rebuild - high or low comp?
Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 6:39 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Ride: EF XR6 Wagon, AU2 XR6 VCT

Power: 148 rwkw

Location: Auckland
New Zealand

SWC wrote:
If you are going to do a rebuild, start with an AU Short Motor, get the sump done and you will have a good solid bottom end with the stage 3 Head. Open her up about 20 thou and you will be laughing. 10:1 will see you fine on 98. 10.5:1 should be OK. Depends on the brand of 98.


....and on how big your cam is. A hotter cam with more overlap reduces your effective ("dynamic") compression at low revs, where you would normally get ping, so you can run a bit more mechanical compression.

 

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95 EF XR6 wagon, 17" FTRs, DBA, QFM, KYB/Koni, AU block, ported EF head, SS Inductions, Territory intake, MLS gasket, milled, Franklin RH24B cam, Coby headers, no cat, Tickford 2.5", 2800rpm stall, J3 chip

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 Post subject: Re: EL engine rebuild - high or low comp?
Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 7:31 pm 
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efxr6wagon wrote:
SWC wrote:
If you are going to do a rebuild, start with an AU Short Motor, get the sump done and you will have a good solid bottom end with the stage 3 Head. Open her up about 20 thou and you will be laughing. 10:1 will see you fine on 98. 10.5:1 should be OK. Depends on the brand of 98.


....and on how big your cam is. A hotter cam with more overlap reduces your effective ("dynamic") compression at low revs, where you would normally get ping, so you can run a bit more mechanical compression.


It's a CMS Stage 2a Cam, so it's not that big.
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 Post subject: Re: EL engine rebuild - high or low comp?
Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 10:53 pm 
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Hey guys would this be suitable?

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/260758332743 ... 1423.l2649

What size over should I go, AFAIK the bottom end is factory still, so it should be able to be bored out.

Also whats a new AU short worth? I'd have issues with engine number correct? Repco would only supply a long engine at around $3000.
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 Post subject: Re: EL engine rebuild - high or low comp?
Posted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 11:41 am 
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Ride: EL Fairmont, VFR400 racer

Power: 144 rwkw

Location: Melbourne
VIC, Australia

Damoo wrote:
Hey guys would this be suitable?

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/260758332743 ... 1423.l2649

What size over should I go, AFAIK the bottom end is factory still, so it should be able to be bored out.

Also whats a new AU short worth? I'd have issues with engine number correct? Repco would only supply a long engine at around $3000.


Buy the ACL rebuild kit after you sort the block out. As you won't know what size piston/bearing you will need for the block. You can get the same person who cleaned up the block to order the ACL kit for you. Might not be cheaper than ebay, but you'll know you'll get the correct parts for the block.

 

_________________

phongus = Post whore 2006
EL XR6 motor, EL ECU + J3 chip, WADE 1673 Camshaft, 3" S/S intake, Pacy 4480, 2.5" Hi flow cat, 2.5" Lukey exhaust.
Max Power = 144.6 rwkw (03/05/2008)

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 Post subject: Re: EL engine rebuild - high or low comp?
Posted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 6:16 pm 
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Age: 60

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Location: Campbelltown
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Damoo wrote:
Hey guys would this be suitable?

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/260758332743 ... 1423.l2649

What size over should I go, AFAIK the bottom end is factory still, so it should be able to be bored out.

Also whats a new AU short worth? I'd have issues with engine number correct? Repco would only supply a long engine at around $3000.


Buy a second hand AU motor and start from there.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/FORD-FALCON- ... 2c70922af1

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/FORD-FALCON- ... 35b950b390

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/FORD-AU-MOTO ... 1c351864e6
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 Post subject: Re: EL engine rebuild - high or low comp?
Posted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 8:45 pm 
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Age: 29

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Ride: 98 EL Futura

Power: 199 rwkw

Location: Lilydale
VIC, Australia

You still make good power with standard comp. I had mine rebuilt with the ACL kit a few years ago. I would be going high comp as others have said. AU's standard are 9.6:1 which are a bit higher than the EL's.

 

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EL Futura: CVE head, Wolf V500, ICE Ignition and Coil, 36lb injectors, Walbro 255lb, Paci comps, 3" exhaust, T5, Harrop Truetrac with 3.9s. Now with 198.9rwkw, (~185rwkw and 13.80 @99.1mph) with more power to come

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 Post subject: Re: EL engine rebuild - high or low comp?
Posted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 3:00 pm 
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Power: 165 rwkw

Location: Penrith
NSW, Australia

To give you and idea of high(ish) comp, My EL is running 10.4:1 comp with ACL race series kit, AU gasket, stg3 CMS cam, ported 94AB head stainless valves, and J3 chip.
Bottom end cost me $2400 inc labour
Head prob spent $600 (self porting)

Turns out a decent 165rwkw can't remember torque but it's definitely there, and runs 14's on the quarter.
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