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EL Ignition or Fuel Issues 

 

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 Post subject: EL Ignition or Fuel Issues
Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 2:23 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Posts: 836

Joined: 1st Apr 2005

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Ride: EF XR6 Wagon, AU2 XR6 VCT

Power: 148 rwkw

Location: Auckland
New Zealand

I'm working on an EL for the first time (my son-in-law's), and am having trouble diagnosing a problem. It was running something miserable, so his mechanic said the injectors needed servicing. I replaced the injectors with used but clean ones from my EF XR6, and it hardly runs. We have reset the computer. It doesn't want to idle, runs really rough when you give any accelerator, and won't rev. After reaching operating temperature, I pulled the plugs. This is really weird: cylinders 2-4-6 are fine (white to tan), cylinders 1-3-5 are all showing very rich (black powdery deposits). How does that happen?

Can't be fuel pump or regulator, as that would affect all cylinders equally. The injectors are all fine, as they worked fine in my EF, so it must be ignition. With one coil and a distributor, I would expect all cylinders to fire OK or none of them. I'm not familiar with EL ignition, so any help would be appreciated.

Thanks, all.

 

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95 EF XR6 wagon, 17" FTRs, DBA, QFM, KYB/Koni, AU block, ported EF head, SS Inductions, Territory intake, MLS gasket, milled, Franklin RH24B cam, Coby headers, no cat, Tickford 2.5", 2800rpm stall, J3 chip

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 Post subject: Re: EL Ignition or Fuel Issues
Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 3:48 pm 
Parts Gopher
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Age: 56

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Joined: 31st Aug 2007

Ride: 98 EL GLI

Location: Adelaide
SA, Australia

Prob not alot of help to you but the ecu has 2 wires for the injectors. One is for is for injectors 1,3,5 and the other does 2,4,6. Seems odd that the rich running cylinders match that.
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 Post subject: Re: EL Ignition or Fuel Issues
Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 4:30 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Posts: 836

Joined: 1st Apr 2005

Gallery: 4 images

Ride: EF XR6 Wagon, AU2 XR6 VCT

Power: 148 rwkw

Location: Auckland
New Zealand

Thanks, MickEBS. That gives me something to focus on. That would indicate ECU more than loom, wouldn't it? A bad loom is likely to give no signal at all, whereas a computer playing up could easily cause this symptom, I guess.

Also, cylinders 1-5-3 are on one side of the distributor, so it could be getting poor contact on one side?

The coil, leads and plugs are brand new (bosch & ngk), so not much more to look at.

Thanks for the help.

 

_________________

95 EF XR6 wagon, 17" FTRs, DBA, QFM, KYB/Koni, AU block, ported EF head, SS Inductions, Territory intake, MLS gasket, milled, Franklin RH24B cam, Coby headers, no cat, Tickford 2.5", 2800rpm stall, J3 chip

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 Post subject: Re: EL Ignition or Fuel Issues
Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 8:31 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Posts: 836

Joined: 1st Apr 2005

Gallery: 4 images

Ride: EF XR6 Wagon, AU2 XR6 VCT

Power: 148 rwkw

Location: Auckland
New Zealand

Help. This has got me baffled.

The EL is still running three cylinders rich (1-3-5) and three cylinders normal (2-4-6). Runs really rough, and won't rev. Is basically undriveable.

These are the repairs so far:
- new NGK plugs
- new bosch leads
- new coil
- new bosch distributor cap and rotor
- swapped in another ECU
- new air filter
- new oxygen sensor
- no play in the distributor shaft
- used but clean injectors (worked fine in my EF)

Also,
- has a new exhaust system including catalyst
- have disconnected the exhaust to check if restriction was the problem

I am at wits end. Any ideas on what to check next? Thanks.

 

_________________

95 EF XR6 wagon, 17" FTRs, DBA, QFM, KYB/Koni, AU block, ported EF head, SS Inductions, Territory intake, MLS gasket, milled, Franklin RH24B cam, Coby headers, no cat, Tickford 2.5", 2800rpm stall, J3 chip

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 Post subject: Re: EL Ignition or Fuel Issues
Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 8:36 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Age: 49

Posts: 1634

Joined: 8th Jul 2007

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Ride: EL F100 CAPRI XR EF

Power: 234 rwkw

Location: brighton
SA, Australia

have u checked the map sensor on the firewall, almost inline with the intake maifold, black box. check the vacuum line is still connected there, and the other end on the manifold

if it was that it would be chugging black smoke out the exhaust

other than that can u borrow another ecu?
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 Post subject: Re: EL Ignition or Fuel Issues
Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 8:53 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Posts: 836

Joined: 1st Apr 2005

Gallery: 4 images

Ride: EF XR6 Wagon, AU2 XR6 VCT

Power: 148 rwkw

Location: Auckland
New Zealand

Yes, I checked the MAP sensor. It's connected both ends and the car's not making black smoke.

We bought an ECU today from a wrecker and swapped it in. Made no difference.

 

_________________

95 EF XR6 wagon, 17" FTRs, DBA, QFM, KYB/Koni, AU block, ported EF head, SS Inductions, Territory intake, MLS gasket, milled, Franklin RH24B cam, Coby headers, no cat, Tickford 2.5", 2800rpm stall, J3 chip

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 Post subject: Re: EL Ignition or Fuel Issues
Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 8:59 pm 
Parts Gopher
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Ride: 2001 au2 sr wagon

Location: sunbury
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Have you tried checking the timing on the dizzy ? ill ask a mate tomorrow and see what he can thing of ! and maybe the module on the side of the dizzy might be crook ?
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 Post subject: Re: EL Ignition or Fuel Issues
Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 9:20 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Posts: 836

Joined: 1st Apr 2005

Gallery: 4 images

Ride: EF XR6 Wagon, AU2 XR6 VCT

Power: 148 rwkw

Location: Auckland
New Zealand

Thanks for that.

I talked to the guy from the wreckers - he's done only Falcons for over 10 years - and he says he has never seen the TPI unit on the side of the distributor do that. It tends to either work correctly or not at all. But I may try that anyway.

Could it have something to do with the auxilliary shaft or dizzy gears? It's long shot, as only cylinders 1, 3 and 5 are affected, but I'm grasping at straws here.

The car is generally well-maintained, and we are meant to be touring down to Albany (from Perth) in it. But I can't spend much more of my holidays (and money) trying to get it to run properly. My son-in-law needs to sell the car at a reasonable price after we are finished with it, so I need to get it fixed. Otherwise I would just forget it and rent a car.

Thanks for your help.

 

_________________

95 EF XR6 wagon, 17" FTRs, DBA, QFM, KYB/Koni, AU block, ported EF head, SS Inductions, Territory intake, MLS gasket, milled, Franklin RH24B cam, Coby headers, no cat, Tickford 2.5", 2800rpm stall, J3 chip

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 Post subject: Re: EL Ignition or Fuel Issues
Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 9:31 pm 
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Age: 26

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Ride: 1994 ED XR6, 2003 BA XR8

Location: Traralgon South
VIC, Australia

this may sound silly but try another set of injectors, my mate had a set cleaned to go on his new motor and when we started the car it would only run on 1-3-5, 2-4-6 where dead, so we went through everything but the injectors and still had no luck. so in the end we switched injectors 2-4-6 out for some off his old motor and it ran like a dream, turn's out that the needles fell back or something.

sometimes it's the thing's you least expect that cause the most drama.

cheers,
Tomo

 

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 Post subject: Re: EL Ignition or Fuel Issues
Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 11:33 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Posts: 836

Joined: 1st Apr 2005

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Ride: EF XR6 Wagon, AU2 XR6 VCT

Power: 148 rwkw

Location: Auckland
New Zealand

Hey, Tomo

I was beginning to think the injectors were the only possibility, though it sounds crazy. Glad to hear it does actually happen. I will give it a shot in the morning. Thanks a bunch.

 

_________________

95 EF XR6 wagon, 17" FTRs, DBA, QFM, KYB/Koni, AU block, ported EF head, SS Inductions, Territory intake, MLS gasket, milled, Franklin RH24B cam, Coby headers, no cat, Tickford 2.5", 2800rpm stall, J3 chip

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 Post subject: Re: EL Ignition or Fuel Issues
Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 3:09 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Posts: 836

Joined: 1st Apr 2005

Gallery: 4 images

Ride: EF XR6 Wagon, AU2 XR6 VCT

Power: 148 rwkw

Location: Auckland
New Zealand

Well, I swapped three of the original injectors back into cylinders 1, 3 and 5, and it made no difference. At normal operating temperature, I am still getting three black spark plugs and three white ones.

When I disconnect the injector for a good cylinder, the engine stalls. When I disconnect the injector for a rich cylinder, the revs drop, but it doesn't stall. So the bad cylinders are still firing, just not producing much power, as they are over-fuelled.

Any ideas? Can the TPI unit on the distributor do that? Thanks.

 

_________________

95 EF XR6 wagon, 17" FTRs, DBA, QFM, KYB/Koni, AU block, ported EF head, SS Inductions, Territory intake, MLS gasket, milled, Franklin RH24B cam, Coby headers, no cat, Tickford 2.5", 2800rpm stall, J3 chip

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 Post subject: Re: EL Ignition or Fuel Issues
Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 3:30 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Posts: 836

Joined: 1st Apr 2005

Gallery: 4 images

Ride: EF XR6 Wagon, AU2 XR6 VCT

Power: 148 rwkw

Location: Auckland
New Zealand

Just a thought. The car is dual fuel (aftermarket, not factory), but is never run on LPG. Could the LPG system be interfering with just half the injectors? When on gas, it must switch off the injectors, and switch them back on on petrol.

Thanks.

 

_________________

95 EF XR6 wagon, 17" FTRs, DBA, QFM, KYB/Koni, AU block, ported EF head, SS Inductions, Territory intake, MLS gasket, milled, Franklin RH24B cam, Coby headers, no cat, Tickford 2.5", 2800rpm stall, J3 chip

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 Post subject: Re: EL Ignition or Fuel Issues
Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 4:00 pm 
Parts Gopher
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Age: 56

Posts: 82

Joined: 31st Aug 2007

Ride: 98 EL GLI

Location: Adelaide
SA, Australia

Check the wiring at the ecu. The three injectors probably aren't turning off and the car is trying to run on both fuels at once. Not sure what pin numbers at the ecu they are. Should be on here somewhere. If you get stuck I'll drag out the manuals and look it up. Could even be the lpg fuel timer relay too.
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 Post subject: Re: EL Ignition or Fuel Issues
Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 4:02 pm 
Parts Gopher
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Age: 56

Posts: 82

Joined: 31st Aug 2007

Ride: 98 EL GLI

Location: Adelaide
SA, Australia

Just saw you said it has never run on lpg. In that case make sure the lpg tank is turned off by the tap on the tank. Then it can only ever run on petrol, least will rule that out.
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 Post subject: Re: EL Ignition or Fuel Issues
Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 4:31 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Posts: 836

Joined: 1st Apr 2005

Gallery: 4 images

Ride: EF XR6 Wagon, AU2 XR6 VCT

Power: 148 rwkw

Location: Auckland
New Zealand

There was enough LPG in the tank to test it on gas, and it runs smooth as. No issues whatsoever. So, it is a fuel problem only; the ignition is fine. We have swapped ECUs, with no effect, so it isn't that. I'm thinking it has to be either the LPG system where it intercepts the injector signals, or the injector loom itself.

For now, we are just going to run it on gas, and get the LPG system looked at later.

Thanks for all your help.

 

_________________

95 EF XR6 wagon, 17" FTRs, DBA, QFM, KYB/Koni, AU block, ported EF head, SS Inductions, Territory intake, MLS gasket, milled, Franklin RH24B cam, Coby headers, no cat, Tickford 2.5", 2800rpm stall, J3 chip

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