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El xr6 from petrol to E85 benefits ??? 

 

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 Post subject: Re: El xr6 from petrol to E85 benefits ???
Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 6:17 pm 
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67RCE wrote:
Shyun - bad advice there. It isn't as easy as fitting bigger injectors. Also, 3%? I got 27% at 5000rpm where I'm out of injector, and I'm looking at closer to 40% more power on E85 compared to 98. I also have a total of 46° of timing in it with E85, compared to 34° on 98


The advice is fine, I didn't say it would work perfectly, I just said it would work fine, which it does using ba injectors without doing anything else. Best practice would be to monitor the AFR though...

The 3% is the power increase going from 10:1 to 12:1, there's about a 5% increase in theoretical thermal efficiency so the real life increase will be less than that. How exactly do you get 40% more power from E85? just from 12deg of timing?

 

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 Post subject: Re: El xr6 from petrol to E85 benefits ???
Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 6:18 pm 
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Also BA injectors arnt much bigger than e-series injectors at all. The 29lb that everyone thinks they are, are at 4 bar fuel pressure. The e-series injectors are measured at 3 bar.

 

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 Post subject: Re: El xr6 from petrol to E85 benefits ???
Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 6:29 pm 
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shyun wrote:
67RCE wrote:
Shyun - bad advice there. It isn't as easy as fitting bigger injectors. Also, 3%? I got 27% at 5000rpm where I'm out of injector, and I'm looking at closer to 40% more power on E85 compared to 98. I also have a total of 46° of timing in it with E85, compared to 34° on 98


The advice is fine, I didn't say it would work perfectly, I just said it would work fine, which it does using ba injectors without doing anything else. Best practice would be to monitor the AFR though...

The 3% is the power increase going from 10:1 to 12:1, there's about a 5% increase in theoretical thermal efficiency so the real life increase will be less than that. How exactly do you get 40% more power from E85? just from 12deg of timing?


Every engine reacts different. You can't say 3% power from 1.8 points of compression as there are too many things that change outputs. I make 100kw @ 5000rpm on E85, Vs 72kw at 5000rpm on 98. Timing and fuelling differences make the power change.

 

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 Post subject: Re: El xr6 from petrol to E85 benefits ???
Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 6:43 pm 
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GeZza200 wrote:
Also BA injectors arnt much bigger than e-series injectors at all. The 29lb that everyone thinks they are, are at 4 bar fuel pressure. The e-series injectors are measured at 3 bar.


Yes they are that much bigger...I needed to change the injector slope from 19>28 on the ecu to get correct fuelling...All you have to do is check on the bosch website, BA are 213g/min vs E-series/AU at 150g/min (tested in n-heptane@ 3bar) so they're 42% larger. And if you do some calculations you'll find they're about 29lb too!

 

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 Post subject: Re: El xr6 from petrol to E85 benefits ???
Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 6:53 pm 
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67RCE wrote:
Every engine reacts different. You can't say 3% power from 1.8 points of compression as there are too many things that change outputs. I make 100kw @ 5000rpm on E85, Vs 72kw at 5000rpm on 98. Timing and fuelling differences make the power change.


Well you can definitely put a limit on it, you're not going to gain MORE efficiency than the thermal efficiency. What else was different between the runs though?

 

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 Post subject: Re: El xr6 from petrol to E85 benefits ???
Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 7:48 pm 
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GeZza200 wrote:
Also BA injectors arnt much bigger than e-series injectors at all. The 29lb that everyone thinks they are, are at 4 bar fuel pressure. The e-series injectors are measured at 3 bar.


E series are measured at 2.7bar, same Reg pressure as an NA BA, BF. Turbo use the 4 bar reg.
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 Post subject: Re: El xr6 from petrol to E85 benefits ???
Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 11:28 pm 
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shyun wrote:
67RCE wrote:
Every engine reacts different. You can't say 3% power from 1.8 points of compression as there are too many things that change outputs. I make 100kw @ 5000rpm on E85, Vs 72kw at 5000rpm on 98. Timing and fuelling differences make the power change.


Well you can definitely put a limit on it, you're not going to gain MORE efficiency than the thermal efficiency. What else was different between the runs though?


Tank was drained of 98 and filled with E85 on the dyno. Runs were 5 mins of each other.

 

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 Post subject: Re: El xr6 from petrol to E85 benefits ???
Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 12:30 am 
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67RCE wrote:
Tank was drained of 98 and filled with E85 on the dyno. Runs were 5 mins of each other.


Yeah not buying it, 40%@wheels is unrealistic just from a bit of timing and a fuel change. the fuel shouldn't change it much, if any by itself, and 12deg of timing would normally give maybe a 10% increase if you're lucky...

 

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 Post subject: Re: El xr6 from petrol to E85 benefits ???
Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 10:32 pm 
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ah yep my bad I was looking at 0 280 156 186 instead of 0 280 156 123, bit odd how i ran out of fuel with those injectors.

 

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 Post subject: Re: El xr6 from petrol to E85 benefits ???
Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 4:01 am 
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The only safe way to use pump e85 is to get an ecu with the flex sensor. E85 at the pump is generally watered back down to e70 in the winter months to prevent cold start problems.

 

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 Post subject: Re: El xr6 from petrol to E85 benefits ???
Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 5:10 pm 
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bry40l wrote:
The only safe way to use pump e85 is to get an ecu with the flex sensor. E85 at the pump is generally watered back down to e70 in the winter months to prevent cold start problems.

United isn't. I'm sitting at 86% Ethanol content right now. But, as I said earlier an Aftermarket ECU (Haltech PS1000/PS2000, Vipec V88, MoTeC) with a Flex Fuel Sensor is the way to do it. I'm running a PS1000. The Ute I'm building is going to a Haltech Elite when it's released.

 

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 Post subject: Re: El xr6 from petrol to E85 benefits ???
Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 5:14 pm 
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Im going E85 and sequential injection when my ITB's go on. How long can you keep the united e85 in your tank? I only drive the car once a week if that.

 

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EL Futura: CVE head, Wolf V500, ICE Ignition and Coil, 36lb injectors, Walbro 255lb, Paci comps, 3" exhaust, T5, Harrop Truetrac with 3.9s. Now with 198.9rwkw, (~185rwkw and 13.80 @99.1mph) with more power to come

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 Post subject: Re: El xr6 from petrol to E85 benefits ???
Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 5:16 pm 
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No more than 2-3 months. I've pushed it to almost 3 months but I wouldn't recommend it.

 

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 Post subject: Re: El xr6 from petrol to E85 benefits ???
Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 5:27 pm 
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ok thats actually pretty good. Does the flex fuel sensor have anything to tell you that its stale? does the ethanol content decrease?

 

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EL Futura: CVE head, Wolf V500, ICE Ignition and Coil, 36lb injectors, Walbro 255lb, Paci comps, 3" exhaust, T5, Harrop Truetrac with 3.9s. Now with 198.9rwkw, (~185rwkw and 13.80 @99.1mph) with more power to come

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 Post subject: Re: El xr6 from petrol to E85 benefits ???
Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 6:38 pm 
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It's not that it goes stale, being Hygroscopic, it absorbs moisture, and as we all know, moisture doesn't compress.

 

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ILL60 - EF XR8, Sunroof, Ticky Kit, 19x8.5/19x11 TE37's, 347, AFr185's, TFS BoxRcustom converter, Hurst Quarterstick, huge billet cam.

51TER - DL LTD. Stock.

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