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El xr6 from petrol to E85 benefits ??? 

 

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 Post subject: El xr6 from petrol to E85 benefits ???
Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 5:29 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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Well I was reading up on the benefits of E85 petrol having a higher point rating in octane and power increase. According to manny articles you can only make power by making be switch from unleaded to ethanol seeing up to 10% increase in power on N/A engines and up to 30% on turbo charged engines.
What I want to know is if any one has converted an El xr6 N/A engine to ethanol ad was there an actual increase in power? How much power?
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 Post subject: Re: El xr6 from petrol to E85 benefits ???
Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 6:42 pm 
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There's more to it than just filling the tank and go.
Reallity is to build an engine, and a fuel supply, to run on the E85.....then you will get the benefits of running the E85.

 

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 Post subject: Re: El xr6 from petrol to E85 benefits ???
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 7:43 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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cjh wrote:
There's more to it than just filling the tank and go.
Reallity is to build an engine, and a fuel supply, to run on the E85.....then you will get the benefits of running the E85.


I'm aware that its going to take more than just filling up the tank and go.
I'm sure a tune and more is involved.
This is more of a topic of interest. considering the BA, BF and FG are as simple as tune, injectors and a couple of small mods to make the switch to E85 fuel getting amazing power gains, would it be as simple for an EL xr6. As we all know with EF-EL it was very hard passing the 180RWKW without turbo/ supercharge set up. Could this be another avenue naturaly aspirated cars could take to get them close to 200rwkw.
has anyone done it?
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 Post subject: Re: El xr6 from petrol to E85 benefits ???
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 11:06 pm 
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My daily is on E85, you need spastic amounts of compression to get the benefits. I'm at 12:1 static compression, with some 312° overall duration, 12.6mm lift cams. I'm looking for a set of 660cc injectors for it so I can actually make power to 9000rpm

 

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 Post subject: Re: El xr6 from petrol to E85 benefits ???
Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:08 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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67RCE wrote:
My daily is on E85, you need spastic amounts of compression to get the benefits. I'm at 12:1 static compression, with some 312° overall duration, 12.6mm lift cams. I'm looking for a set of 660cc injectors for it so I can actually make power to 9000rpm


thanks for the reply, so in order for the E85 to be effective the engine compression needs to be higher. i take it the car was a BA, BF or FG as it revs to 9000rpm.

has any one tried it on a EF, EL?
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 Post subject: Re: El xr6 from petrol to E85 benefits ???
Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 12:48 am 
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imo with what ive seen, anything n/a with compression under10:1 will not benefit from the e85..
you can run it with the right pump and injectors, you can tune it to get as much as you can out of it and it will run fine, drive fine, perform fine, but still wont really perform any better than a tune on 98 octane..
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 Post subject: Re: El xr6 from petrol to E85 benefits ???
Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 8:16 am 
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serbnz wrote:
67RCE wrote:
My daily is on E85, you need spastic amounts of compression to get the benefits. I'm at 12:1 static compression, with some 312° overall duration, 12.6mm lift cams. I'm looking for a set of 660cc injectors for it so I can actually make power to 9000rpm


thanks for the reply, so in order for the E85 to be effective the engine compression needs to be higher. i take it the car was a BA, BF or FG as it revs to 9000rpm.

has any one tried it on a EF, EL?

A 4 cyl would rev to 9000rpm.
The reason behind a ba onwards car responding good to e85 is they have a higher compression than the e series engine.

 

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 Post subject: Re: El xr6 from petrol to E85 benefits ???
Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 11:16 am 
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There are more benefits to E85 than just power.

E85 is a superior fuel in every way except for L/100km.

 

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 Post subject: Re: El xr6 from petrol to E85 benefits ???
Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 6:59 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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TyLeR3397 wrote:
There are more benefits to E85 than just power.

E85 is a superior fuel in every way except for L/100km.


so realy their is no point on a E series. After research the E85 fuel it said the reason why it performs better is because it burns slower having 105-107 point in octaine. not mentioning anything about compression.
has anyone else got any theories?
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 Post subject: Re: El xr6 from petrol to E85 benefits ???
Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 7:16 pm 
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It wouldn't be worth the hassle moving over to e85 on a stock e-series engine. As said before you would need a decent amount of compression and ignition timing to see the real benefits. I will be doing it to my car I will post up results when I have done it. Hoping for 5-10rwkw increase

 

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 Post subject: Re: El xr6 from petrol to E85 benefits ???
Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 7:50 pm 
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My old man runs his au saloon car on e85, it makes about 180kw with standard comp. it is less sensitive to a/f ratio changes, less chance of melting a piston. It is a bit of a pig when cold and you would have to change the oil and fuel filter at least every 5k.
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 Post subject: Re: El xr6 from petrol to E85 benefits ???
Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 11:00 pm 
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I looked at doing this myself on both my Civic and NL fairlane. in my civic i can in theory put E85 in as is and it will run with errors on the dash. but there is a conversion required to run the NL on it. from what i found you need to put in bigger injectors ( i believe the ones from a BA or BF) can handle the amounts of fuel required from what i was told but a mob who does the conversion, you also need to fit a J3 chip tuned with the fuel map suited for E85.

you may find a performance gain out of it however it uses more fuel and it is harder to find places where you can fuel up with it.

also from what i remember of the conversation i had with the people who where going to do the work on my car, and i remember this being the biggest turn off for me was the fuel would have to be run down to nearly empty if i wanted to put normal fuel in to it as i would need to switch it back to run on standard unleaded.

not sure how these other kits you can get on ebay work. but i would have to imagine they would make the car use more fuel during normal operation.

so if you are doing the conversion for power improvement yeah may be worth it if you can put up with the draw backs of using it.
If doing it because it is cheaper to buy, take into consideration you will use 30% more fuel to go the same distance.

the main reason for me not going ahead with using this fuel is it is hard to get your hands on it where i live, there is one fuel station that used to sell it but they have not bothered ordering it in. yay Caltex

hope this helps :)

 

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 Post subject: Re: El xr6 from petrol to E85 benefits ???
Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 10:25 am 
Getting Side Ways
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bry40l wrote:
serbnz wrote:
67RCE wrote:
My daily is on E85, you need spastic amounts of compression to get the benefits. I'm at 12:1 static compression, with some 312° overall duration, 12.6mm lift cams. I'm looking for a set of 660cc injectors for it so I can actually make power to 9000rpm


thanks for the reply, so in order for the E85 to be effective the engine compression needs to be higher. i take it the car was a BA, BF or FG as it revs to 9000rpm.

has any one tried it on a EF, EL?

A 4 cyl would rev to 9000rpm.
The reason behind a ba onwards car responding good to e85 is they have a higher compression than the e series engine.


Bryden nailed it. It's a 4 Cyl, and if I'm game/it keeps making power, 10000rpm is a possibility.

B Series Turbos respond to E85, don't know of anyone who has done an E85 tune on an NA 6.

Anyway, safest way to do an E85 conversion when using pump E85 is with an Aftermarket ECU and Flex Fuel Sensor. I can pull into any servo and fill up. 98 or E85 in any mix is A-Ok.

 

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 Post subject: Re: El xr6 from petrol to E85 benefits ???
Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 5:48 pm 
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I have ran my ED n/a on e85, nothing much too it really. I had BA injectors (43% bigger than e-series/au) so enough fuel supply there, the pump can also take it fine...although it's getting close to the limit. I have my own j3 chip to monitor the AFR, but if you use BA injectors it would run fine without a tune since E85 needs around 40% more fuel anyway (same as the injector increase). Even if it runs lean it's not that big a deal on e85 anyway...

If you tune the e85 and 98ron the same, the power output will be almost identical. The only benefit you will get is if you run into detonation, which I seem to between 3000-4000 rpm, so you might gain a bit of power there but that is about it. The reason it is good on boosted vehicles is they will always be limited by detonation. Or alternatively you could increase the compression ratio n/a, but even then it's diminishing returns going above 10:1...maybe 3 precent at 12:1. Interestingly it also changed the engine note quite a bit...it sounded smoother.

In the end though I didn't bother with it since there's not many fuel stations near where I live, and if you ever fill up with 98ron you'll get some unknown mixed percentage of ethanol and have to update the tune to suit every time. Flex fuel + programmable ECU would be the way to go as mentioned if you could be bothered...

 

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 Post subject: Re: El xr6 from petrol to E85 benefits ???
Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 6:02 pm 
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Shyun - bad advice there. It isn't as easy as fitting bigger injectors. Also, 3%? I got 27% at 5000rpm where I'm out of injector, and I'm looking at closer to 40% more power on E85 compared to 98. I also have a total of 46° of timing in it with E85, compared to 34° on 98

 

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