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| tickford_6 |
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Posts: 6449 Joined: 11th Nov 2004 |
There isn't uniform oil film thickness and pressure the whole way around a journal bearing like that.
It's also film strength not oil pressure that separates. The early Judd V8 only had 40psi od of oil pressure at 13000rpm and over 700hp. If pressure was the key that engine would never have lasted more then a lap. The Cosworth DFV by the end of it's racing life was only run with 35psi oil pressure and made peak power at 10500rpm. In the end that aux shaft journal lost pressure, but low oil pressure was NOT the initial cause of the failure. It's feed oil from the front main bearing, If oil pressure was the problem that bearing would also be damaged. |
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| hans hartman |
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tickford_6 wrote: There isn't uniform oil film thickness and pressure the whole way around a journal bearing like that. It's also film strength not oil pressure that separates. The early Judd V8 only had 40psi od of oil pressure at 13000rpm and over 700hp. If pressure was the key that engine would never have lasted more then a lap. The Cosworth DFV by the end of it's racing life was only run with 35psi oil pressure and made peak power at 10500rpm. In the end that aux shaft journal lost pressure, but low oil pressure was NOT the initial cause of the failure. It's feed oil from the front main bearing, If oil pressure was the problem that bearing would also be damaged. i agree with you,but i tried to do less typing,as im half blind atm.
_________________ R.I.P HANS HARTMAN |
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| skidder |
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^ Most informative post I have seen on here today.
_________________ EVL098 wrote: Cramping in the hand from having it on your Wang for an excessive period of time is a definate con. Seriously do people google "f**k up modifications for Fords owned by Jews" and get linked straight to this site nowadays? AU,factory fitted tickford kit/IRS, t5,Sports ryder/KYB: gone. |
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| phongus |
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Spent about 30mins on the block today to remove the pistons/conrods/crankshaft from the block. Mainly to inspect possible damage to the front main bearing. As suspected by tickford_6, the front main bearings were indeed damaged.
As you can see from the images below, they have pits and scratches, which are not meant to be there. I put a picture of a good (relatively) and a bad one for comparison between the 2 halves. Lower bearing being the crankshaft-cap-end half, upper bearing being the block half. Bad lower bearing:  Good lower bearing:  Bad upper bearing:  Good upper bearing:  Here is another shot of the upper bearing half. I also inspected the oil feed hole between auxiliary shaft and main bearing...seemed okay without any blockages...  The crankshaft didn't have any pits or scores on them, but if the block is useless, I'll just use it all as an ornament or put the engine back together for some practice. Well the block is now bare with everything removed (bar some bolts) ready to be taken to an engine specialist for a check up. This is how it looks at the moment with the components marked and left on the ground. Crank, pistons/conrods, crank end caps.  Block as it stands. All cylinders, except number 3, were in pretty good nick, no scores/scratches/pits. With cylinder 3, there seems to be some sort of stain...it's like acid or something has cleaned part of it and has left a stain...   Well that should be it for now...until I get more funding and get the blocked checked. That will be a while yet...hopefully end of November...if not next year.
_________________ phongus = Post whore 2006 |
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| EFFUTURA4.05SP |
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I honestly cant see any benifit in repairing this engine due to the fact a replacement block will most likely be cheaper than even a look over by a machinist..
The engine I just rebuilt came from a car I purchased for $200 so you will easily pick up a tired engine for sub $50. My neibour is a scrappy, I can keep an eye out for another donk as they come through from time to time (even had a Barra the other day)
_________________ 1996 EF Futura factory manual |
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| phongus |
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EFFUTURA4.05SP wrote: I honestly cant see any benifit in repairing this engine due to the fact a replacement block will most likely be cheaper than even a look over by a machinist.. The engine I just rebuilt came from a car I purchased for $200 so you will easily pick up a tired engine for sub $50. My neibour is a scrappy, I can keep an eye out for another donk as they come through from time to time (even had a Barra the other day) Yeah I know they can be had for cheap, especially an already dead one. But I'd haul it for free to the specialists, they'll have a quick look and if they say, it'll cost too much to fix, I'll find another block and turn this one into a table like in TopGear   I mean if it is cheaper for them to bore and tap in a bush, I'd go that option (highly doubting it'll be cheap though...but one can dream).
_________________ phongus = Post whore 2006 |
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| EFFUTURA4.05SP |
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I applaud you for your persistance.
Besides, im sure others here can benifit from the information provided here. I sure as hell am finding this informative.
_________________ 1996 EF Futura factory manual |
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| phongus |
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EFFUTURA4.05SP wrote: I applaud you for your persistance. Besides, im sure others here can benifit from the information provided here. I sure as hell am finding this informative. Thanks, I'm doing this to gain more understanding and knowledge regarding engines/rebuilding. I like it as a hobby and if I get stuck, I will try and find the answer with the help of FM members and reading material (books and google). So while I'm learning, I'll document it for others as well.
_________________ phongus = Post whore 2006 |
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| tickford_6 |
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Posts: 6449 Joined: 11th Nov 2004 |
That front bearing isn't actually worn that much, It's just filled with debris from the aux shaft that has worked it way down every time the engine has be switched off.
For the amount iron that been run through that bearing I would have thought it would have been in worse condition. After seeing it, your original theory of to much chain tension seems to be the most likely cause of the block/aux shaft wear. I personly wouldn't scrap the block, i'd put it away for an other time. |
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| phongus |
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tickford_6 wrote: That front bearing isn't actually worn that much, It's just filled with debris from the aux shaft that has worked it way down every time the engine has be switched off. For the amount iron that been run through that bearing I would have thought it would have been in worse condition. After seeing it, your original theory of to much chain tension seems to be the most likely cause of the block/aux shaft wear. I personly wouldn't scrap the block, i'd put it away for an other time. hmmm I will have a think about it. Most likely won't scrap it...probably clean it up, paint it to stop it from rusting and then use it as a coffee table in the garage until I need it .
_________________ phongus = Post whore 2006 |
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| EFFUTURA4.05SP |
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I thought about doing this to my old block but something tells me the missus wouldnt be too happy about an engine block coffee table in the house and Imagine having to move it to clean the carpet or something.. haha
_________________ 1996 EF Futura factory manual |
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| macxr8 |
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Age: 55 Posts: 451 Joined: 3rd Jan 2005 Ride: AU XR6 with BF Turbo engine Location: Sydney |
Probably cost you between 150-200 to repair the aux shaft
_________________ RIP |
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| bry40l |
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i know someone who is making something like the topgear blender/rocking chair, altho its not ford powered or v10 powered
 hmm i6 blender for the mrs birthday present? 
_________________ BF XR6 |
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| phongus |
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Well it has been a while since I've updated this thread!
Been busy with home renovations, which had made me some what poor. Neglecting my car, bikes and the dead engine at the same time. Anyways thought I'd ring around today to get some prices about possible bore/resleeve job on the auxiliary shaft on the block. As suspected, most told me to not bother and just find another second hand block. It will be cheaper with less headaches. Since I am poor, I am going to go the second block option for the time being. Wouldn't mind putting double race bearings on the broken block in the future as tickford_6 suggested...but not sure if it's worth the effort. From the dozen engine rebuilder/reconditioners I called, only 3 of them could do the job and quoted about 2 hours labour which would be anywhere between $200-350. They only gave me a rough estimate which is understandable since they haven't seen the block. For that price, I think it is best to just find a spare block or a complete dead engine. So now I am on the hunt for a second hand engine/block...running or not...preferably $100ish would be ideal in price. If anyone has one or knows anyone scrapping an EL engine, please let me know Also got quoted about $500 for a specialist to put my block back together and roughly $600 for an ACL Race Series rebuild kit. Worse case scenario, $1200 for supplied and fitted of internals. EDIT: Got a call back just as I posted from another rebuilder and they said they can bore it out, tap in a bush for $155 + GST...so $170.50. Which isn't too bad I think...need to ponder about this. I would assume the reliability of tapping a bush in depends on the material the bush is made of? How much would double race bearings cost (just the bearing...assuming the boring of the aux shaft costs the same?)
_________________ phongus = Post whore 2006 |
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| Sefton |
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Michael (HYPOEB) wrote: Can i just ask why are you rebuilding it? Are you planning on boosting it? If not just go to the wreackers and buy a EF-AU motor,Seems quite pointless to rebuild your engine unless you just wanna throw money around.. Pretty much brand new motor, with uber amount of reliability, over one that's probably had more than its fair share of s**t thrown at it, aww it's alright came from a lady owner, aww the last owner did the top end, doesn't blow any smoke mate ran great before I pulled it out of the car, oh and one more thing they all tick like that Oh yes a rebuilds so pointless. |
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1x confused Falcon..EL Falcon with full AU running gear...VCT, 5 speed, IRS, AUII front suspension, brakes, and steering RIP
