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Engine rebuild parts list/cost/requirements/information 

 

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 Post subject: Re: Engine rebuild parts list/cost/requirements/information
Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 4:07 pm 
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Those bearings look familiar, dad and I pulled down our old fordson tractor that had seized up, one of the bearings had become dry, and it looks like those ones, all parts of the bearing sort of 'rolled' along as the crank had scraped it off.

I'm hoping to get a rebuild donk for mine in the future, the one I'm looking at has already been rebuilt so I'm cheating a bit. :lol:

 

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 Post subject: Re: Engine rebuild parts list/cost/requirements/information
Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:18 pm 
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phongus wrote:
Well it has been a while since I've updated this thread!

Been busy with home renovations, which had made me some what poor. Neglecting my car, bikes and the dead engine at the same time.

Anyways thought I'd ring around today to get some prices about possible bore/resleeve job on the auxiliary shaft on the block. As suspected, most told me to not bother and just find another second hand block. It will be cheaper with less headaches. Since I am poor, I am going to go the second block option for the time being. Wouldn't mind putting double race bearings on the broken block in the future as tickford_6 suggested...but not sure if it's worth the effort.

From the dozen engine rebuilder/reconditioners I called, only 3 of them could do the job and quoted about 2 hours labour which would be anywhere between $200-350. They only gave me a rough estimate which is understandable since they haven't seen the block. For that price, I think it is best to just find a spare block or a complete dead engine.

So now I am on the hunt for a second hand engine/block...running or not...preferably $100ish would be ideal in price. If anyone has one or knows anyone scrapping an EL engine, please let me know :)

Also got quoted about $500 for a specialist to put my block back together and roughly $600 for an ACL Race Series rebuild kit. Worse case scenario, $1200 for supplied and fitted of internals.

EDIT: Got a call back just as I posted from another rebuilder and they said they can bore it out, tap in a bush for $155 + GST...so $170.50. Which isn't too bad I think...need to ponder about this. I would assume the reliability of tapping a bush in depends on the material the bush is made of? How much would double race bearings cost (just the bearing...assuming the boring of the aux shaft costs the same?)


You would need to talk a good bearing shop and hunt through catalogs until you find a suitable bearing to fit. If that shop can bore it and fit a bush, they should be able to suitably bore it to take double race needle roller bearing.
I would think making the bearing an interference fit on the aux shaft and fitting it with loctite bearing retainer and making the bore in the block just big enough to fit.

While in there I would also groove the bore to create an oil spray to the dizzy gear. (as a needle roller won't need a direct oil supply, you may as well make use of it for something else.)

 

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 Post subject: Re: Engine rebuild parts list/cost/requirements/information
Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:27 pm 
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if you want to fit double race needle roller bearing you need to line bore the block.
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 Post subject: Re: Engine rebuild parts list/cost/requirements/information
Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:45 pm 
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Thanks for that guys. I will have a look around. I'm pretty sure my work has a bearing catalog somewhere. Would it be ideal to reduce the diameter of the auxiliary shaft to suit a bearing's inner race?

I assume this is a double race needle roller bearing?

Image

 

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 Post subject: Re: Engine rebuild parts list/cost/requirements/information
Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:12 am 
Getting Side Ways
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phongus wrote:
Thanks for that guys. I will have a look around. I'm pretty sure my work has a bearing catalog somewhere. Would it be ideal to reduce the diameter of the auxiliary shaft to suit a bearing's inner race?

I assume this is a double race needle roller bearing?

Image


Thats a single race.

You need this type
Image

 

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 Post subject: Re: Engine rebuild parts list/cost/requirements/information
Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 10:33 am 
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tickford_6 wrote:
phongus wrote:
Thanks for that guys. I will have a look around. I'm pretty sure my work has a bearing catalog somewhere. Would it be ideal to reduce the diameter of the auxiliary shaft to suit a bearing's inner race?

I assume this is a double race needle roller bearing?

Image


Thats a single race.

You need this type
Image


Ahh right...sorry wasn't thinking then...should have figured the picture I posted didn't have the inner race either.

Would it be best to round down the auxiliary shaft to suit the inner race of the bearing? or better to find a bearing to suit the shaft and then bore out the block to fit the outer race?

 

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EL XR6 motor, EL ECU + J3 chip, WADE 1673 Camshaft, 3" S/S intake, Pacy 4480, 2.5" Hi flow cat, 2.5" Lukey exhaust.
Max Power = 144.6 rwkw (03/05/2008)

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 Post subject: Re: Engine rebuild parts list/cost/requirements/information
Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 11:21 am 
Getting Side Ways
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measure the block wear,then the shaft,add a little machining,, will give you the o.d. of bearing to look for,i.d.of the shaft can be made to fit as well.cosider the width-1 or 2 brgs.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Engine rebuild parts list/cost/requirements/information
Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:15 pm 
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phongus wrote:
Would it be best to round down the auxiliary shaft to suit the inner race of the bearing? or better to find a bearing to suit the shaft and then bore out the block to fit the outer race?


If I was starting with a good shaft and block I'd try to find a bearing that would fit the block with minimal machining and then machine the shaft to fit the ID of the bearing.

In your case find a bearing the will give enough room to machine both the block and shaft to remove all the damage.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Engine rebuild parts list/cost/requirements/information
Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 1:17 pm 
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tickford_6 wrote:
phongus wrote:
Would it be best to round down the auxiliary shaft to suit the inner race of the bearing? or better to find a bearing to suit the shaft and then bore out the block to fit the outer race?


If I was starting with a good shaft and block I'd try to find a bearing that would fit the block with minimal machining and then machine the shaft to fit the ID of the bearing.

In your case find a bearing the will give enough room to machine both the block and shaft to remove all the damage.


Thanks for your input, it reinforces my plan :).

I ended up calling CBC bearings and gave them a random measurement of the bearing I needed. I am really bad at guestimating sizes and being at work, I don't have access to measuring the hole size, so gave him an OD of 70mm, width of 30mm and ID of anything. He came back with a 72mm OD, 40mm width and ID of 58mm costing $136.25. He also said there is a sleeve that can go into the ID in case the shaft is not hardened steel and may wear out or something along those lines. The sleeve reduces ID to 50mm and costs $46 extra.

So worse case scenario, $400 to put a bearing into the block (including block/shaft machining and bearings/sleeve)

I know the bearing sizes are probably WAY off, but it gave me some kind of idea.

 

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phongus = Post whore 2006
EL XR6 motor, EL ECU + J3 chip, WADE 1673 Camshaft, 3" S/S intake, Pacy 4480, 2.5" Hi flow cat, 2.5" Lukey exhaust.
Max Power = 144.6 rwkw (03/05/2008)

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 Post subject: Re: Engine rebuild parts list/cost/requirements/information
Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 6:57 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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dam this has got me really thinking

ive got a GBC dizzy in my car the complete unit , im scared now i threw out my Bosch bottom end and my dad just called me an idiot for wanting to re use the gears of the genuine one
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 Post subject: Re: Engine rebuild parts list/cost/requirements/information
Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:39 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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phongus wrote:
tickford_6 wrote:
phongus wrote:
Would it be best to round down the auxiliary shaft to suit the inner race of the bearing? or better to find a bearing to suit the shaft and then bore out the block to fit the outer race?


If I was starting with a good shaft and block I'd try to find a bearing that would fit the block with minimal machining and then machine the shaft to fit the ID of the bearing.

In your case find a bearing the will give enough room to machine both the block and shaft to remove all the damage.


Thanks for your input, it reinforces my plan :).

I ended up calling CBC bearings and gave them a random measurement of the bearing I needed. I am really bad at guestimating sizes and being at work, I don't have access to measuring the hole size, so gave him an OD of 70mm, width of 30mm and ID of anything. He came back with a 72mm OD, 40mm width and ID of 58mm costing $136.25. He also said there is a sleeve that can go into the ID in case the shaft is not hardened steel and may wear out or something along those lines. The sleeve reduces ID to 50mm and costs $46 extra.

So worse case scenario, $400 to put a bearing into the block (including block/shaft machining and bearings/sleeve)

I know the bearing sizes are probably WAY off, but it gave me some kind of idea.


The sleeve is effectively the inner race. Which you will need as the shaft isn't hardened.
If that's the case you will need an interference fit on both the inner and outer.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Engine rebuild parts list/cost/requirements/information
Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:44 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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No disrespect intended, but is it really wothwhile?

I bought the whole car that my current engine came out of for $200.

I would consider other options in this case. Just my opinion.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Engine rebuild parts list/cost/requirements/information
Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:20 pm 
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EFFUTURA4.05SP wrote:
No disrespect intended, but is it really wothwhile?
I bought the whole car that my current engine came out of for $200.
I would consider other options in this case. Just my opinion.



Some people buy cheap used engines and run the risk of getting a s**t one. Some people fix what they have knowing that it's fixed. It's been a long time since I saw an EA-EL with under 200 000km on it.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Engine rebuild parts list/cost/requirements/information
Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:59 pm 
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tickford_6 wrote:
EFFUTURA4.05SP wrote:
No disrespect intended, but is it really wothwhile?
I bought the whole car that my current engine came out of for $200.
I would consider other options in this case. Just my opinion.



Some people buy cheap used engines and run the risk of getting a s**t one. Some people fix what they have knowing that it's fixed. It's been a long time since I saw an EA-EL with under 200 000km on it.


I rebuilt my motor and it was a comprehensive rebuild at that. I am confedent it will give me many year more of reliable motoring. Dont get me wrong, it was r00ted, completely siezed, bores corroded due to a blown head gaket, all that fun stuff.

Im just saying for the cost of that one repair, you could get an engine that doesnt require it, rebuild that and not waste the cash. My aux shaft was tight, no play, minimal measurable wear and had somewhere in the region of 280,000km.

Im assuming this must be an improvement on the bearingless Aux journals?

 

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 Post subject: Re: Engine rebuild parts list/cost/requirements/information
Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 10:56 pm 
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im about to do the same thing but puting at tickford head fpr and ecu ect
apparently a kit from burson auto parts come with racing kit comes with
every thing exept oil pump and head bolts for 700 ish not shore of the brand
valve springs all the gaskets welsh plugs rear main seal pistons
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