Fordmods Logo

Engine starts ONLY when fuel line is disconnected 

 

Page 1 of 2 [ 16 posts ] Go to page 1, 2  Next

 
 Post subject: Engine starts ONLY when fuel line is disconnected
Posted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 1:16 pm 
Oompa Loompa
Offline

Posts: 49

Joined: 21st Mar 2011

Ride: Ford Falcon ED 1994 SW

Location: sydney
NSW, Australia

BACKGROUND
The car started fine a few days ago. Traveled 30 m and it stopped . Restarted and it started sputtering and then engine stopped firing
There was lots of rain in the 2 days prior.

ECU , smartlock and BEM were checked for moisture....bone dry!

1) There is a signal at each injector. First when you turn the ignition to ON and then when you click it to start

2) There is plenty of fuel at the rail. Measured at 70PSI

3) each cylinder sparks

4) the engine fires when the PUMP hose is removed! ONLY when the pump hose is removed for a couple of seconds as the fuel in the rail depleats

#Seems most owners of old fords have moved on...not much activity on this discussion topic

Is there another forum where the old ford die hards linger?
Top
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject: Re: Engine starts ONLY when fuel line is disconnected
Posted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 1:43 pm 
Fordmods Junkie
Online
User avatar

Posts: 3585

Joined: 22nd Jan 2009

Ride: '03 BA Wagooon & EB Wagooons

Location: Geeelong
VIC, Australia

brik32544 wrote:
Is there another forum where the old ford die hards linger?



:lol: :lol: :roll: yes ...... :mrgreen:
Top
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject: Re: Engine starts ONLY when fuel line is disconnected
Posted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:19 pm 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Age: 47

Posts: 849

Joined: 16th May 2012

Gallery: 16 images

Ride: EF-XR6/XG-6/XE-V8- project

Mad2 wrote:
brik32544 wrote:
Is there another forum where the old ford die hards linger?



:lol: :lol: :roll: yes ...... :mrgreen:



Fuel lines back to front :shock:

 

_________________

XG ute now powered with DOHC-BARRA 182/Tiger extractors/20% Underdrive and BA 4-SPEED + Tiptronic shifter

the-garage-f53/project-xg-fpv-dohc-barra-182-t128753-60.html

Top
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject: Re: Engine starts ONLY when fuel line is disconnected
Posted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 5:49 pm 
Oompa Loompa
Offline

Posts: 49

Joined: 21st Mar 2011

Ride: Ford Falcon ED 1994 SW

Location: sydney
NSW, Australia

johnnyeHCF wrote:

Fuel lines back to front :shock:



Johnny I stuffed up!!!!
No I did not invert the fuel lines, however, I took the wrong reading of the fuel pressure. I took the pump pressure and not the rail pressure. I was unaware at first that there was a return line controlled by the fuel pressure regulator.
I re took the pressure and the FPR opens up at 40psi and the pressure hovers around 35psi, which seems to be the way it should be.
I measured the spark voltage and it ranges from 28.0 to 2.8 kV...is that too much range, could the coil be playing up?
Top
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject: Re: Engine starts ONLY when fuel line is disconnected
Posted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 6:36 pm 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Age: 47

Posts: 849

Joined: 16th May 2012

Gallery: 16 images

Ride: EF-XR6/XG-6/XE-V8- project

brik32544 wrote:
johnnyeHCF wrote:

Fuel lines back to front :shock:



Johnny I stuffed up!!!!
No I did not invert the fuel lines, however, I took the wrong reading of the fuel pressure. I took the pump pressure and not the rail pressure. I was unaware at first that there was a return line controlled by the fuel pressure regulator.
I re took the pressure and the FPR opens up at 40psi and the pressure hovers around 35psi, which seems to be the way it should be.
I measured the spark voltage and it ranges from 28.0 to 2.8 kV...is that too much range, could the coil be playing up?


I'm a bit confused,are you still using the OEM fuel regulator and then a FPR to control the pressure?

You need to get rid of the fuel reg in the rail with a adapter that just bypasses to your FPR as you would have two regulators competing to regulate the pressure.

 

_________________

XG ute now powered with DOHC-BARRA 182/Tiger extractors/20% Underdrive and BA 4-SPEED + Tiptronic shifter

the-garage-f53/project-xg-fpv-dohc-barra-182-t128753-60.html

Top
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject: Re: Engine starts ONLY when fuel line is disconnected
Posted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 7:32 pm 
Fordmods Junkie
Online
User avatar

Posts: 3585

Joined: 22nd Jan 2009

Ride: '03 BA Wagooon & EB Wagooons

Location: Geeelong
VIC, Australia

johnnyeHCF wrote:
brik32544 wrote:
johnnyeHCF wrote:

Fuel lines back to front :shock:



Johnny I stuffed up!!!!
No I did not invert the fuel lines, however, I took the wrong reading of the fuel pressure. I took the pump pressure and not the rail pressure. I was unaware at first that there was a return line controlled by the fuel pressure regulator.
I re took the pressure and the FPR opens up at 40psi and the pressure hovers around 35psi, which seems to be the way it should be.
I measured the spark voltage and it ranges from 28.0 to 2.8 kV...is that too much range, could the coil be playing up?


I'm a bit confused,are you still using the OEM fuel regulator and then a FPR to control the pressure?

You need to get rid of the fuel reg in the rail with a adapter that just bypasses to your FPR as you would have two regulators competing to regulate the pressure.



then hopefully you have mentioned this else where?
Top
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject: Re: Engine starts ONLY when fuel line is disconnected
Posted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 7:57 pm 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Age: 47

Posts: 849

Joined: 16th May 2012

Gallery: 16 images

Ride: EF-XR6/XG-6/XE-V8- project

Mad2 wrote:
johnnyeHCF wrote:
brik32544 wrote:
johnnyeHCF wrote:

Fuel lines back to front :shock:



Johnny I stuffed up!!!!
No I did not invert the fuel lines, however, I took the wrong reading of the fuel pressure. I took the pump pressure and not the rail pressure. I was unaware at first that there was a return line controlled by the fuel pressure regulator.
I re took the pressure and the FPR opens up at 40psi and the pressure hovers around 35psi, which seems to be the way it should be.
I measured the spark voltage and it ranges from 28.0 to 2.8 kV...is that too much range, could the coil be playing up?


I'm a bit confused,are you still using the OEM fuel regulator and then a FPR to control the pressure?

You need to get rid of the fuel reg in the rail with a adapter that just bypasses to your FPR as you would have two regulators competing to regulate the pressure.



then hopefully you have mentioned this else where?


You mean me-Mr Madman?

Obviously check spark though!

 

_________________

XG ute now powered with DOHC-BARRA 182/Tiger extractors/20% Underdrive and BA 4-SPEED + Tiptronic shifter

the-garage-f53/project-xg-fpv-dohc-barra-182-t128753-60.html

Top
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject: Re: Engine starts ONLY when fuel line is disconnected
Posted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 8:50 pm 
Oompa Loompa
Offline

Posts: 49

Joined: 21st Mar 2011

Ride: Ford Falcon ED 1994 SW

Location: sydney
NSW, Australia

johnnyeHCF wrote:

I'm a bit confused,are you still using the OEM fuel regulator and then a FPR to control the pressure?

You need to get rid of the fuel reg in the rail with a adapter that just bypasses to your FPR as you would have two regulators competing to regulate the pressure.


No I am only using the OEM Bosch 0280160280 250kpa (36psi) and it works like new, so I may replace it in the future for one with a gauge on it...but not until I've sorted this starting problem
Top
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject: Re: Engine starts ONLY when fuel line is disconnected
Posted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 8:56 pm 
Oompa Loompa
Offline

Posts: 49

Joined: 21st Mar 2011

Ride: Ford Falcon ED 1994 SW

Location: sydney
NSW, Australia

johnnyeHCF wrote:

Obviously check spark though!


Originally I have checked for spark in a very simplistic manner. Then I got a spark analyser connected and got the above readings 28.0 to 2.8 kV. Have no idea if the range is topo wide. Tomorrow I will check if the spark jumps 10mm or so.
I am thinking that maybe I have a non constant ignition coil problem. Goes that ever happen? My auto electrician replaced it last year when the dizzy TFI spark plugs and leads were replaced. I am surprised he didn't request to replace the doors and roof!
Top
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject: Re: Engine starts ONLY when fuel line is disconnected
Posted: Sun Jan 10, 2021 9:06 am 
Fordmods Junkie
Online
User avatar

Posts: 3585

Joined: 22nd Jan 2009

Ride: '03 BA Wagooon & EB Wagooons

Location: Geeelong
VIC, Australia

johnnyeHCF wrote:

You mean me-Mr Madman?




nah your good. & he already had mentioned it on ford forum.
Top
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject: Re: Engine starts ONLY when fuel line is disconnected
Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 9:30 am 
Oompa Loompa
Offline

Posts: 49

Joined: 21st Mar 2011

Ride: Ford Falcon ED 1994 SW

Location: sydney
NSW, Australia

Still battling with this problem. there's a few more diehards on the other forum. It's all a matter of touching base with someone that has had a similar experience. Will definitely update this forum when I find a solution. Have so much to learn on this crappy Ford ignition system.
have a read of this. Ford settled a class action taken ot many years ago in California. The litigation prone yanks took the sloppy manufacturer to court over the crappy TFI system.


https://www.therangerstation.com/tech_l ... lement.pdf
Top
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject: Re: Engine starts ONLY when fuel line is disconnected
Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:41 pm 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Age: 47

Posts: 849

Joined: 16th May 2012

Gallery: 16 images

Ride: EF-XR6/XG-6/XE-V8- project

brik32544 wrote:
BACKGROUND
The car started fine a few days ago. Traveled 30 m and it stopped . Restarted and it started sputtering and then engine stopped firing
There was lots of rain in the 2 days prior.

ECU , smartlock and BEM were checked for moisture....bone dry!

1) There is a signal at each injector. First when you turn the ignition to ON and then when you click it to start

2) There is plenty of fuel at the rail. Measured at 70PSI

3) each cylinder sparks

4) the engine fires when the PUMP hose is removed! ONLY when the pump hose is removed for a couple of seconds as the fuel in the rail depleats

#Seems most owners of old fords have moved on...not much activity on this discussion topic

Is there another forum where the old ford die hards linger?


Was thinking that 70psi is very high on a naturaly aspirated car even a XR6 turbo only has 58psi or 4bar at the rail,it could be the injectors just won't work at that pressure maybe? And if so I would think it would be the fuel regulator itself causing the problem.
TFI has always been a problem on these models too.

 

_________________

XG ute now powered with DOHC-BARRA 182/Tiger extractors/20% Underdrive and BA 4-SPEED + Tiptronic shifter

the-garage-f53/project-xg-fpv-dohc-barra-182-t128753-60.html

Top
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject: Re: Engine starts ONLY when fuel line is disconnected
Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:56 pm 
Oompa Loompa
Offline

Posts: 49

Joined: 21st Mar 2011

Ride: Ford Falcon ED 1994 SW

Location: sydney
NSW, Australia

brik32544 wrote:
BACKGROUND
The car started fine a few days ago. Traveled 30 m and it stopped . Restarted and it started sputtering and then engine stopped firing
There was lots of rain in the 2 days prior.

ECU , smartlock and BEM were checked for moisture....bone dry!

1) There is a signal at each injector. First when you turn the ignition to ON and then when you click it to start UPDATE. the signal is erratic and now there is no signal

2) There is plenty of fuel at the rail. Measured at 70PSI UPDATE it is 35 PSI

3) each cylinder sparks UPDATE yes and no..sometimes they spark and other times there is no spark

4) the engine fires when the PUMP hose is removed! ONLY when the pump hose is removed for a couple of seconds as the fuel in the rail depleats

#Seems most owners of old fords have moved on...not much activity on this discussion topic

Is there another forum where the old ford die hards linger?


johnnyeHCF wrote:
Was thinking that 70psi is very high on a naturaly aspirated car even a XR6 turbo only has 58psi or 4bar at the rail,it could be the injectors just won't work at that pressure maybe? And if so I would think it would be the fuel regulator itself causing the problem.
TFI has always been a problem on these models too.


Absolutely right. My stupid mistake. I was unaware of the return line controlled by the fuel pressure regulator. I took the fuel puymp max pressure NOT the rail pressure.
Reconnected the gauge (properly this time) and the FPR opened up at 40 psi at first ands then the pressure hovered around 35psi. This seems ok. I also took off the regulator and it is as good as new. Works very well.
Yes the TFI is a badly designed , poorly located junk piece. Motorcraft no longer makes them. You can still find the original Bosch unit (Bosch is responsible for the poor design. Motorcraft just labeled the units made by Bosch)

UPDATE

So now I am concentrating on the TFI and the Dizzy. Had these replaced with the coil plugs and leads mid last year. Never thought they could fail so early (especially after what I paid for the new Bosch units)
I checked the coil and it is ok

I can also confirm that the spark and the pulse to the injector is NOT constant or smooth. It is erratic. As of last night I had no spark and no injector pulse. :(

Will try to pull apart the TFI connector
Top
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject: Re: Engine starts ONLY when fuel line is disconnected
Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:27 pm 
Fordmods Junkie
Online
User avatar

Posts: 3585

Joined: 22nd Jan 2009

Ride: '03 BA Wagooon & EB Wagooons

Location: Geeelong
VIC, Australia

canna remember if was asked or if you replied. was the dizzy changed & was the original cog swapped onto the new dizzy?
Top
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject: Re: Engine starts ONLY when fuel line is disconnected
Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:32 pm 
Oompa Loompa
Offline

Posts: 49

Joined: 21st Mar 2011

Ride: Ford Falcon ED 1994 SW

Location: sydney
NSW, Australia

Mad2 wrote:
canna remember if was asked or if you replied. was the dizzy changed & was the original cog swapped onto the new dizzy?


yes the full dizzy was replaced including the stem, cap etc, Brand new Bosch (not that Bosch is synonymous with quality nowadays)
Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:
Sort by  
 Page 1 of 2  [ 16 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 23 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

 

 

It is currently Mon Apr 19, 2021 8:46 am All times are UTC + 11 hours

 

 

(c)2014 Total Web Solutions Australia - Australian Web Hosting and Domain Names