Fordmods Logo

failed auxillery shaft 

 

Page 1 of 3 [ 34 posts ] Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next

 
 Post subject: failed auxillery shaft
Posted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 10:02 am 
Oompa Loompa
Offline

Age: 31

Posts: 21

Joined: 18th Dec 2009

Ride: EL XR6

Location: Werribee
VIC, Australia

Hi, i have an 96 EL XR6.

2 weeks ago my car broke down, before breaking down the car was running really rough, hesitating, missing, tacho needle was shaking as you accelerated.

turns out that the gears inside the auxillery shaft have been stripped. Confirmed by watching the rotor on the distributor spin and then stop, spin then stop.

This is now the 2nd time this has happened to this car, the last time 2 years ago. Back then i took it to Ford to get fixed. Cost me an arm and leg. They said my oil pump was excessively tight causing the gear to strip. They went on an replaced the oil pump, aux. shaft, timing chain guide and retainer plate, reworked the timing cover, chain tensioner bore.

We are not going to bother to repair it, as i've heard there is a bearing at the end of the auxillery shaft that maybe gone, we don't want to take the risk of it happening again.

So now we are looking to either

1) Get another engine and put it in
2) or rebuild the engine in there.

Is this a common problem for EL's?
Does it happen often?
and what causes it to happen?

About a week before this happened, my brother and I changed the dizzy, we couldn't have done anything to cause this could we?
Top
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject: Re: failed auxillery shaft
Posted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 10:43 am 
Fordmods Junkie
Offline
User avatar

Age: 38

Posts: 5051

Joined: 5th Nov 2004

Ride: Kia Rio - 1.4L Auto

Power: 238 rwkw

Location: Westside
VIC, Australia

There's no bearing on the aux shaft, it just floats in the bore that it slides into, obviously lubed by oil.

A stripped gear could be caused by a lack of lube to the aux shaft, but I would think you'd hear some chain noise because things aren't moving as freely as they should.

Alot of guys here have had issued with AU engines and dizzy's, in that the idea is the AU aux shaft isnt as strong as the older ones and the teeth will eventually chew out. Hopefully Ford didn't put an AU part in there.

The other causes are the oil pump or dizzy both being tight.

It's possible the dizzy you put in wasn't spinning freely and caused the problem. Have you take the dizzy out and had a look at the teeth on both the gears?

And changing the aux shaft isnt that hard. Lower sump, remove dizzy and timing case and you'll have access to the aux shaft to remove it. You'll need a balancer puller as the only special tool, the rest are 8, 10 and 13mm bolts and a 5mm allen key for the shaft retainer. So costs could be kept to a new timing cover seal set, aux shaft and an oil change to get rid of any metal in the oil.
Top
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject: Re: failed auxillery shaft
Posted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 11:33 am 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Age: 45

Posts: 1953

Joined: 1st Feb 2006

Gallery: 25 images

Ride: BA on gas. EL on gas. XF on gas.

Location: Greenacres/Adelaide
SA, Australia

sterps wrote:
Hi, i have an 96 EL XR6.


About a week before this happened, my brother and I changed the dizzy, we couldn't have done anything to cause this could we?

Yes.

 

_________________

Member Number 8804
Image

Top
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject: Re: failed auxillery shaft
Posted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 12:07 pm 
Moderator
Offline

Posts: 14513

Joined: 7th Nov 2004

Ride: ford falcon au3 xr8

Location: a shit suburb in sydney
NSW, Australia

MadMatt wrote:
sterps wrote:
Hi, i have an 96 EL XR6.


About a week before this happened, my brother and I changed the dizzy, we couldn't have done anything to cause this could we?

Yes.


yep i had an aftermarket dizzy kill an aux shaft in an au engine... as the cheap aftermarket dizzys are made of poor meterials.. the gear on my dizzy was off centre and the pitch of the gears was slightly different..

and the aux shaft from ford is the the same part number from ea through to au..
as i did extensive research and made alot of calls before i used another au engine with a dizzy..
i ended up getting another engine and fitted a genuine dizzy...
Top
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject: Re: failed auxillery shaft
Posted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 12:33 pm 
Oompa Loompa
Offline

Age: 31

Posts: 21

Joined: 18th Dec 2009

Ride: EL XR6

Location: Werribee
VIC, Australia

When we did it, we went to bursons and bought a Distributor pack that came with a coil, the brand was RAE.

Then it started screwing up, so i took it to a mechanic, and they got a new distributor in there from bursons and put another RAE one in there.

I was also told a high volume oil pump is a no for this car, and im not sure what sort ford put in my car, but my oil pressure was always high after they worked on it, is there any truth to that?
Top
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject: Re: failed auxillery shaft
Posted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 12:47 pm 
Oompa Loompa
Offline

Age: 31

Posts: 21

Joined: 18th Dec 2009

Ride: EL XR6

Location: Werribee
VIC, Australia

arm79 wrote:
There's no bearing on the aux shaft, it just floats in the bore that it slides into, obviously lubed by oil.



So there is no bearing at the end of the shaft in the engine block or some part , i read that in another forums.

This is what I read :

"It took me a while to figure it out, no one really knew what the problem was until I rang up a Ford Performance place in Victoria who knew what the problem was straight away. After asking if he knew anything about 'auxiliary shafts' he said 'it keeps failing doesn't it?', and then continued to say there is only two ways a auxiliary shaft will fail, either the oil pump is stuffed which is very unlikely in this particular model or you've over tensioned the timing chain at some point. Apparently there is a bearing in the engine block on the far end of the auxiliary shaft that easily wears if there is too much tension on the chain, the only solution is to change the block for a new one."
Top
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject: Re: failed auxillery shaft
Posted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 12:48 pm 
Fordmods Junkie
Offline
User avatar

Age: 38

Posts: 5051

Joined: 5th Nov 2004

Ride: Kia Rio - 1.4L Auto

Power: 238 rwkw

Location: Westside
VIC, Australia

I would assume Ford put a factory pump in there, unless they specifically went out and bought a high volume one from a Bursons for instance. High pressure after a new pump could just indicate that your original one was rooted and simply not pumping enough oil.

Being from Werribee, did you go to Westpoint for the work. I know they have a good relationship with Bursons down the road, and chances are an aftermarket pump was cheaper. So it is possible.

High volume pumps just put more strain on the pump drive, which is the rod that goes into the bottom of the dizzy shaft. That in turn would put more strain on the dizzy drive gears, which as you have found can be damaged and the teeth sheered off.

I had a slightly higher volume JP pump running in my EL fine ages ago. But there is a point where the pump may get too heavy.
Top
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject: Re: failed auxillery shaft
Posted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 12:55 pm 
Fordmods Junkie
Offline
User avatar

Age: 38

Posts: 5051

Joined: 5th Nov 2004

Ride: Kia Rio - 1.4L Auto

Power: 238 rwkw

Location: Westside
VIC, Australia

sterps wrote:
arm79 wrote:
There's no bearing on the aux shaft, it just floats in the bore that it slides into, obviously lubed by oil.



So there is no bearing at the end of the shaft in the engine block or some part , i read that in another forums.

This is what I read :

"It took me a while to figure it out, no one really knew what the problem was until I rang up a Ford Performance place in Victoria who knew what the problem was straight away. After asking if he knew anything about 'auxiliary shafts' he said 'it keeps failing doesn't it?', and then continued to say there is only two ways a auxiliary shaft will fail, either the oil pump is stuffed which is very unlikely in this particular model or you've over tensioned the timing chain at some point. Apparently there is a bearing in the engine block on the far end of the auxiliary shaft that easily wears if there is too much tension on the chain, the only solution is to change the block for a new one."


I'm not aware of a bearing (like a proper roller bearing for instance) on either end of the shaft. Just that either end sits inside a machined hole with the aux shaft supported by the oil. Same as the cam.

I suppose what he means is that if a tight chain pulls the aux shaft off centre or on an angle, it can start wearing into the block, and yeah, the only fix would be a new block. But you would hear if the chain was tight. You'd be getting whirring and grinding noises from the chain as it passes over the guides.
Top
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject: Re: failed auxillery shaft
Posted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 1:11 pm 
Oompa Loompa
Offline

Age: 31

Posts: 21

Joined: 18th Dec 2009

Ride: EL XR6

Location: Werribee
VIC, Australia

Yes i did take it to westpoint.

Nah, never have heard any grinding or sounds from the chain.

Well i guess i don't have to get a new block if that is the case.
Aside from the failing aux. shaft, what other signs would there be if the oil pump was seizing up, my oil pressure was never low before it broke down.

When i took the car to get fixed after we put the dizzy in, the guy did tell me it was off by a little, but it shouldn't have made a difference.
As for the dizzy, has anyone else had any trouble with a RAE dizzy, anyone know much about the brand?
Top
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject: Re: failed auxillery shaft
Posted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 2:25 pm 
Moderator
Offline

Posts: 14513

Joined: 7th Nov 2004

Ride: ford falcon au3 xr8

Location: a shit suburb in sydney
NSW, Australia

the aftermarket dizzy i had was a aca?? from memory..
you cant beat the genuine bosch dizzy..
Top
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject: Re: failed auxillery shaft
Posted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 7:19 pm 
Oompa Loompa
Offline

Age: 31

Posts: 21

Joined: 18th Dec 2009

Ride: EL XR6

Location: Werribee
VIC, Australia

My dad, brother and I are going to repair it ourselves. Aside from replacing the aux. shaft, timing cover seal set, dizzy. Is there anything else we should change and/orcheck for damage?
Top
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject: Re: failed auxillery shaft
Posted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 8:22 pm 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Age: 49

Posts: 6467

Joined: 18th Dec 2006

Ride: 93 ED sedan

Power: 161 rwkw

Location: Rockhampton
QLD, Australia

sterps wrote:
My dad, brother and I are going to repair it ourselves. Aside from replacing the aux. shaft, timing cover seal set, dizzy. Is there anything else we should change and/orcheck for damage?


What oil were you running????

 

_________________

http://youtu.be/jJTh9F3Vgg0

Top
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject: Re: failed auxillery shaft
Posted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 9:12 pm 
Oompa Loompa
Offline

Age: 31

Posts: 21

Joined: 18th Dec 2009

Ride: EL XR6

Location: Werribee
VIC, Australia

Most of the time castrol GTX2.
Top
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject: Re: failed auxillery shaft
Posted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 9:15 pm 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Age: 49

Posts: 6467

Joined: 18th Dec 2006

Ride: 93 ED sedan

Power: 161 rwkw

Location: Rockhampton
QLD, Australia

Sounds like it needs a thorough going over...the whole donk.

 

_________________

http://youtu.be/jJTh9F3Vgg0

Top
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject: Re: failed auxillery shaft
Posted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 11:32 pm 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Age: 30

Posts: 3737

Joined: 22nd May 2006

Ride: BF F6 Tornado - #0077

Location: Bendigo
VIC, Australia

sounds much like my issue (but hasnt gotten worse in 3 years)

going in to have the same stuff checked next month (pls dont be the shaft!)

 

_________________

** For Sale ** http://www.fordmods.com/ford-parts-for-sale-f17/assorted-e-series-parts-t124697.html

F6 Tornado 2006 Build

Is it about sex? The engine in my car? Or a cure for cancer?
No?

Then f**k off

Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:
Sort by  
 Page 1 of 3  [ 34 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 18 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

 

 

It is currently Mon Dec 18, 2017 10:44 pm All times are UTC + 11 hours

 

 

(c)2014 Total Web Solutions Australia - Australian Web Hosting and Domain Names