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Ford EL crank really fast but no start [ SOLVED ] 

 

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 Post subject: Re: Ford EL crank really fast but no start - PLZ HELP !!!
Posted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 12:00 am 
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Yeah I took the rocker cover off, and brought piston 1 to TDC, cam sprocket was looking to passenger side and dizzy was at "START". I guess timing was good..

Wait when we change cams,,, are we supposed to reset the cam chain tensioner?? <- i just swapped cams over.. i didnt know were supposed to re-tension the chain..

anyway, the most WEIRD things occured this evening. for some reason, today afternoon was cold, and January is still cold :( so i had to wear a jumper first time in summer ;'(

no no.. Really what happened was i tried to crank the balancer by hand, but there was so much pressure it would hardly move forward, and when i let go it would just move back... yes, i mean with the breaker bar i would do a turn, i can feel the pressure like a balloon, and when i let go, it would move back.. insane crank pressure, couldnt even bring it again to tdc. did it yesterday when the problem was new, but not now...

so i had enough and ripped the head off, and looked at the block, i realised that AU metal headgaskets DONT have all their oil and coolant jackets drilled out... I could see that the coolant been trying to travel but left a mark at the places its been trying to push through.. and i looked at the head and block there are so many water chambers and coolant chambers, but most are closed off at the gasket... :| maybe that made insane crank pressure? gasket seems fine and reusable. the valve areas of the head look fine, no bends or cracks, but are totally blacked out.

maybe i should re-do the head one more time? also, would the piston rings etc be needing a renewal? its only on 213 000 kms.

also, when i mentioned I accidentally backed off some head bolts... 10 out of 14 head bolts were loose. only the last 2 head bolts behind cylinder 6 was tight. somehow only that cylinder bothered to fire. so I learnt that even a slight nip and the head bolt backwards Totally eliminates their clamp force. i took them off with a normal tiny ratchet. usually it is supposed to make a snap sound.. but just came right off. does this mean also after run in we're not supposed to retorque head bolts?

wow im lost. and still wearing a jumper :(
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 Post subject: Re: Ford EL crank really fast but no start - PLZ HELP !!!
Posted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 8:48 am 
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the small holes in the head gasket are fine, the smaller holes are there to help prevent thermal shock, its how its ment to be..

how loose were your head bolts??

and yes the cam chain tensioner needs to be released and reset, otherwise this puts extra tension on the aux gear and will fail prematurely..
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 Post subject: Re: Ford EL crank really fast but no start - PLZ HELP !!!
Posted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 11:11 am 
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I thought the rotor button should be pointing at FINISH.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Ford EL crank really fast but no start - PLZ HELP !!!
Posted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 11:35 am 
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MAD wrote:
I thought the rotor button should be pointing at FINISH.


I thought the same... :|

 

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 Post subject: Re: Ford EL crank really fast but no start - PLZ HELP !!!
Posted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 1:26 pm 
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Ok, so at TDC, the rotor button should look at "FINISH" exactly? Ill do it that way then
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 Post subject: Re: Ford EL crank really fast but no start - PLZ HELP !!!
Posted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 3:42 pm 
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"Start" is where it sits when your putting the dizzy in, but as you push down and it meshes with the gears it turns to "finish", hope this helps, someone correct me if im wrong, cheers

 

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 Post subject: Re: Ford EL crank really fast but no start - PLZ HELP !!!
Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 1:48 am 
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Good evening guys,

Yes, troyman pointed it out from the start. rocker arm clearance. the douche that sold me the cam said the rocker arms were stock cos the stage 2 cam didnt need any mopdifying, and even crow cams said the same thing when i rang them (double fail). turns out, the rocker arms that came with the stage 2 cam that i installed HAD extra 2 tiny washers in them, thus gave the necessary clearance. so when i put the stock cam in, it didnt work.

so my 3rd time rebuilding the engine this year, and all started working again. until, i blew the head again. 10 mins of driving and the head is pissing oil out here n there again. omg i just rebuilt the same damn head 3 times in 3 months. :(

ok, i will pay someone to do my cylinder head one last time. anyone out there? really, i already tried 3 times this year, spend a load of money only for the head to keep blowing itself... idk, ill pay anyone here to do it professionally. i can even provide you the headgasket and bolts. ill strip it all down in 10 mins (you get faster each time lol). someone to torque those damn bolts nicely, and make the car run nicely without s**t itself in 10 mins. oh Gawd, 3 heads in 3 months.. im broke :(
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 Post subject: Re: Ford EL crank really fast but no start - PLZ HELP !!!
Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 7:55 am 
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Did you get the head decked and checked? Sorry id love to help but unfortunately its abit far to travel lol..

 

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 Post subject: Re: Ford EL crank really fast but no start - PLZ HELP !!!
Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 2:31 pm 
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Yep had it decked and checked. It was done like 3 times in 3 months, had it shaved, checked, everything. Even spent money n got the valves to seal n seat properely. Just yesterday got it done nicely, put it on the car and I blew it again in 5 mins driving to the shop n back. :( I really need a professional to do it for me... ill pay for it lol. Heck ill even strip it down to make it easier and save from money. Someone who can torque those damn bolts nicely and gimme advice how to do it properely...

Anyone there? Anybody? Im in the northern suburbs... siting hopeless in the driveway lol
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 Post subject: Re: Ford EL crank really fast but no start - PLZ HELP !!!
Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 3:02 pm 
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If you used AU MLS head gaskest the head bolts need to be Torqued to 30nm then go an additional 120 degrees
If any other composite gasket they go 40nm and an additional 90 degrees

Did you do the head bolts up in the spiral pattern to prevent head warping?

Have you ever dropped your torque wrench? If so the spring inside is probly stuffed, so id go get a new one, or test the feeling at 30nm with yours on a random bolt (ie strut tower nut) and then with a known correctly calibrated one, not a very accurate means of testing them but if its way out youll feel it.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Ford EL crank really fast but no start - PLZ HELP !!!
Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 5:53 pm 
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Falcon96XR6 wrote:
If you used AU MLS head gaskest the head bolts need to be Torqued to 30nm then go an additional 120 degrees
If any other composite gasket they go 40nm and an additional 90 degrees

Did you do the head bolts up in the spiral pattern to prevent head warping?

Have you ever dropped your torque wrench? If so the spring inside is probly stuffed, so id go get a new one, or test the feeling at 30nm with yours on a random bolt (ie strut tower nut) and then with a known correctly calibrated one, not a very accurate means of testing them but if its way out youll feel it.


Also...oiled threads on the head bolts, and Moly grease under the flange of the head bolts....gives a truer torque setting.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Ford EL crank really fast but no start - PLZ HELP !!!
Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 6:13 pm 
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Yep those areas I fail at. Being a backyard mechanic doesnt quialify properely for doing cylinder heads. The bolts arent torqued exactly the same, making variations, and this and that. Thats why ill take it to someone to professionally do it. I tried 3 times already, each failed in their own way. Inbox me anyone, ill drive it to your shop...

By the way.. an engine reconditioner told me to do 45 + 90 degrees for au gaskets.. I did that. Still oil was leaking. So I got upset and tighetend them all to a total of like 150-160nm. Is tightening them too much not good? Because of the variations in my bolt torque, i don't get an even torque across all bolts. So I end up torquing the bolts to the torque spec of the most toqrued bolt. So If a bolt was at like 130/140/150/160nm, then id try to do them all to that torque setting. Its not good. Too much confusion.. So id rather take it to one of you guys to do it..

I also have an annoying noise from my engine, each time I press the accelerator from low rpm, I get this truck-lile diesel enine rattle sound.. and it is somewhat linked to my engine dying at low revs. Is my botton end stuffed? It sounds like a diesel engine. Rattle and clank. :( it does it when it heats up, as well. So its linked ttocenginedying out at low revs, and linked to heating up, bad acceleration and loss of power. Yes this diesel engine like sound. When I press the accelerator that sounds come. Usually the head s**t itself soon afterwards...

Should I just get a new engine?

Last edited by ahmedkayihan on Thu Jan 09, 2014 6:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Ford EL crank really fast but no start - PLZ HELP !!!
Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 6:25 pm 
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If the head had been cooked before....the alloy can lose it's hardness, and cannot be rehardened....and can leak oil/coolant.
In sufficient technique/cleaning/preparation can lead to gasket failure as well.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Ford EL crank really fast but no start - PLZ HELP !!!
Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 6:32 pm 
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cjh wrote:
If the head had been cooked before....the alloy can lose it's hardness, and cannot be rehardened....and can leak oil/coolant.
In sufficient technique/cleaning/preparation can lead to gasket failure as well.


I thought so too... I have 3 cyl heads and theyre all fubar'ed. Hmm. I guess I got a hell of a lot of work on my hands. All 3 heads been warped at some stage lol. So I guess theyve lost their strength. 2 of them also have valves that dont seal properely. The 3rd one is the current one on the car. I got the valves done on that one but it blew it self 3 times now lol. Then even after I fix that up, i gotta find out that evil rattling sound at low rpm..

BetteR to just grab a new engine?
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 Post subject: Re: Ford EL crank really fast but no start - PLZ HELP !!!
Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 8:24 pm 
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Sounds like grabbin another donk will be easier.

 

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