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Ford EL crank really fast but no start [ SOLVED ] 

 

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 Post subject: Ford EL crank really fast but no start [ SOLVED ]
Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 3:58 pm 
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hi guys, heres a serious troubleshoot to boggle the best of minds...

I have an el ghia, (also for sale). It was driving good, but yesterday I decided to take out the stage-2 cam and put my stock cam back in.

Tried starting the car, engine cranked really fast, a fast straight crank, and didnt start. spark plugs 1-5 were soaking wet, and spark plug 6 was charcoaled black. spark plug 6 was the only one tried to fire, as it was charcoaled and tried firing, and extractor 6 was warm and all others were cold. and only from cyl 6 i heard a slight jerk, an effort to start...

removed rocker cover, all turns well. spider arms are working, cam gear turns..

after a few cranks, a pop sound comes, blows the pcv valve off, and a tiny bit of some comes from one of the spark plug holes when i remove them to inspect. a bit of smoke as if you would light a matchstick... does it every now and then.

car was working all good, then this issue happened. hence why i cbf and put it up for sale. everything else of the car is fine. i know that injectors work fine cos all plugs were wet and plug 6 was smoked...

am i losing compression? when i was tightening my cylinder head bolts (was still in run-in), i accidentally turned 2-3 bolts a tiny bit anticlockwise, a tiny bit. just when u hear the bolt make a cracking sound, i stopped. and retightened it clockwise. cos i realised i was going the wrong way. would that be a problem? or something else? btw, are we supposed to tighten head bolts during run-in? i did the gasket myself, and reconditioned the head and got the valve seats regrinded for sealing, so the valves seal properely, but dunno of anything else? even if a bolt or two may be loosened by a dregree, it should at least try to start the car, not just flood the compression chamber... i mean, oil didnt leak from the sides either..

any help guys?

Last edited by ahmedkayihan on Mon Mar 30, 2015 2:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Ford EL crank really fast but no start - PLZ HELP !!!
Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 7:11 am 
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Just replacing your cam caused all that? Wow!

Cranking fast like that normally indicates loss of dynamic compression. That can be caused by the valves being held open.

Also, if you removed the cam sprocket, could it have been re-installed out of phase? If so, you could have bent valves that will never fully close.

Plugs wet with fuel means no spark. Have you checked that the distributor rotor is turning? Maybe a shredded distributor shaft gear.

I'm grasping at straws a little, but hopefully gives you a place to start.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Ford EL crank really fast but no start - PLZ HELP !!!
Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 12:28 pm 
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was your old cam a regrind???
if it was did you remove the extra shim in each rocker arm before fitting std cam??
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 Post subject: Re: Ford EL crank really fast but no start - PLZ HELP !!!
Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 1:27 pm 
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It was a stage 2 cam. No shims were installed I was told I didnt need them. Would head bolts cause this? I think im getting no compression.vsparkys are wet, and just a straight crank sound
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 Post subject: Re: Ford EL crank really fast but no start - PLZ HELP !!!
Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 1:32 pm 
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efxr6wagon wrote:
Just replacing your cam caused all that? Wow!

Cranking fast like that normally indicates loss of dynamic compression. That can be caused by the valves being held open.

Also, if you removed the cam sprocket, could it have been re-installed out of phase? If so, you could have bent valves that will never fully close.

Plugs wet with fuel means no spark. Have you checked that the distributor rotor is turning? Maybe a shredded distributor shaft gear.

I'm grasping at straws a little, but hopefully gives you a place to start.


I installed the cam properely. Cos there is a notch where it sits in the socket nicely... and tightened to 50bnm... idk what can be wrong :(( pls help lol
Yep dizzy is turning as im getting spark. Only cyl6 is trying to fire
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 Post subject: Re: Ford EL crank really fast but no start - PLZ HELP !!!
Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 1:56 pm 
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do a compression test.. its sounding like no compression... its either from valves not closing or it has bent all its valves??

head bolts being fudged with wont cause a complete loss of compression, if anything it could cause premature coolant leaks from gasket..
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 Post subject: Re: Ford EL crank really fast but no start - PLZ HELP !!!
Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 6:16 pm 
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unfortunately I dont have the tools do do the compression test.. i know that ill have to get new bolts and retighten for sure.. but i dont undterstand why the car should crank so fast and only 1 cylinder bothers to fire??

yeah as you said the bolts shouldnt get so loose just after 1 notch of reverse... i mean, at least it should try to fire.. it cant lose 100% compression just because 2-3 head bolts got notched backwards... theres no firing on them at all

and why cylinder 6 and not the rest???

there was a slight popping sound from one of the cylinders, and blew off the pcv pipe off the valve. a bit of smoke like a matchstick amount came from the spark plug hole, and a tiny bit from the throttle body upwards... hmm

so, what would be the logic of a car cranking fast but no firing.. bent valves? no compression whatsoever? i did everything right. just swapped cams over lol n that was the end of it. i got so frustrated even put it on sale :( lol
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 Post subject: Re: Ford EL crank really fast but no start - PLZ HELP !!!
Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 6:22 pm 
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Are you sure the cam timing isnt out???
Double check how many shims are in the rockers.
They are the only things that would cause what you describe.
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 Post subject: Re: Ford EL crank really fast but no start - PLZ HELP !!!
Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 6:29 pm 
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TROYMAN wrote:
Are you sure the cam timing isnt out???
Double check how many shims are in the rockers.
They are the only things that would cause what you describe.


shims in the rockers were stock, because the rocker arms were stock. i put a stage 2 when rebuilt it (stage 2 apparently doesnt require any mods to the rocker arms), but due to intermittent misfiring and stalling at low rpm, i just put the stock xr6 cam back in.

cam timing? wait we might have something here. can you tell me more about cam timing?

cos i took the rocker arms off, undid the bolt, rested the cam gear without skipping a tooth, put the old cam back in, lined up the notch that fits into the sprocket and bolted it all back again. put everything back on, cranked the car and all i hear is "vzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz" with only cyl 6 trying to fire once in a while, and extractor 6 is warm. keep cranking, and then a slight pop sound "fsssst", pcv valve pipe blows off, and with a tiny bit of smoke coming from a spark plug hole when i removed it..
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 Post subject: Re: Ford EL crank really fast but no start - PLZ HELP !!!
Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 6:30 pm 
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Just a thought.. what year is your el? And what cam did you put in?
Incase your not aware that late el ran a au cam and early el ran same cam and rockers as ed/ef.
Mix them ip and valves get bent due to dufferent ricker ratios
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 Post subject: Re: Ford EL crank really fast but no start - PLZ HELP !!!
Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 6:34 pm 
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TROYMAN wrote:
Just a thought.. what year is your el? And what cam did you put in?
Incase your not aware that late el ran a au cam and early el ran same cam and rockers as ed/ef.
Mix them ip and valves get bent due to dufferent ricker ratios


1996 el ghia. i put in a stage 2 crow cam..

It was stock, i blew the head. rebuilt it, put a stage 2. then blew it again, re-did the head, kept the stage 2. now i decided to put the stock cam in until car has a proper run-in because it would randomly misfire and annoyingly stall at low rpm.

the early '98 el ones had aus spec head n cam i think. nah mines 1996.
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 Post subject: Re: Ford EL crank really fast but no start - PLZ HELP !!!
Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 6:35 pm 
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You say its a stage 2 cam? From who? If it was a billet cam then yes no extra shims are required but any regrind cam no matter on what stage or grind it is will require shiming..
Did you set up the first cam?
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 Post subject: Re: Ford EL crank really fast but no start - PLZ HELP !!!
Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 6:39 pm 
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TROYMAN wrote:
You say its a stage 2 cam? From who? If it was a billet cam yhen yes no extra shins are required but any regrind cam no mattet on what stage or grind it is will require shiming..
Did you set up the first cam?


i bought it off some fag who sold it to me for 400 bux saying its a stage 3 hectic cam. was a total noob back then so i bought it. i called up crow cams, gave the engraved number to them, they said its a stage 2 (mild cam). no shims were required, and can put them straight in. the car went allright the whole time. suddenly i put my old cam back in, everything dies lol

setting up the cam? nah just threw it right in and it worked. somehow my stock cam doesnt work :(
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 Post subject: Re: Ford EL crank really fast but no start - PLZ HELP !!!
Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 7:38 pm 
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Take your rocker cover off, bring the engine to TDC, Check the Harmonic Balancer as well as No1 piston is at the top. Check the timing mark on the Cam Sprocket. See if you have slipped some teeth on the sproket.

Also check to see that you rotor button is at No1 point on the dizzy.

Check to see that the valves are lifting right up. Should be little to no play on the rockers.
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 Post subject: Re: Ford EL crank really fast but no start - PLZ HELP !!!
Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 10:03 pm 
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Did you reset the Cam chain Tensioner ????

 

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