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FORD EL hesitation during acceleration PLEASE HELP!!! 

 

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 Post subject: FORD EL hesitation during acceleration PLEASE HELP!!!
Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 5:26 pm 
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Age: 26

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Joined: 21st Mar 2011

Ride: four wheels and an engine

Location: right over there...
VIC, Australia

I have an EL which when I put it in D and step on the accelerator, it shudders. And it takes of really weak. doesnt spin the wheels (im not after burning rubber but i just wanna be sure and have clarity that its in good health), and gets to 100 in like 9 seconds because of the hesitation, shudder and bad take off.

here's what I've done til now. I've checked for vacuum leaks, found nothing. Sprayed half a can of "start ya bastard" lol and the bastard didn't rev up. poor bastard. played around, jerked hoses, pulled them off/on etc. didnt fix

now theres a spare car number 2 in good working nick. basically i swapped stuff from car 2 to my car. car 2 is an EF..

bought new spark plugs, leads, dizzy cap, rotor. Still no change
bought new fuel filter, fitted on the correct way, swapped fuel pressure regulator, still the same.

Swapped oxy sensor, map sensor, tested swapped Pcv valve, still the same.
Swapped Throttle body, swapped/cleaned ICV still the same

What remains is: ecu, cam timing, injectors , fuel pump, distributor itself maybe?

The thing is, this car always had that hesitation... When I put in the au xr6 engine, it still did it. I don't think it will be cam timing or the au engine. Fuel pump was changed a few times idk if it could still be that. I remember the old el engine done it and I played with the dizzy timing, it sort of fixed it but was kinda still there very vaguely.

I'm not sure if the dizzy timing would be the cause. I played around with the dizzy ALOT and the problem always still persisted.

i still havent done base timing tho. i havent pinned top left bottom left warm the car up to temp and set base timing in idle yet. not yet

What could it be?


also note: when i rev the car in idle, it hangs, and slowly drops back down. leaning out?
also note: only does the shudder during takeoff rapid acceleration. didnt do it in 2nd gear kick down etc.
also note: black stuff coming out of exhaust onto floor.

Last edited by ahmedkayihan on Sun Jun 07, 2015 6:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: FORD EL hesitation during acceleration
Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2015 2:49 pm 
Stock as a Rock
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Age: 26

Posts: 123

Joined: 21st Mar 2011

Ride: four wheels and an engine

Location: right over there...
VIC, Australia

Can somebody please help??

I need your help guys..
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 Post subject: Re: FORD EL hesitation during acceleration
Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2015 4:01 pm 
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Location: tanilba bay
NSW, Australia

I would make sure the ignition timing is set correctly, and then look at injectors.

 

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EA falcon(S-Pac) AU engine and injector's, EL BBM conversion,K&N pod,EL ECU,T5 5speed,EL Streering rack, EL Brake system, Extractor's 2 1/2in high flow cat, through 2 1/2in mandrel bent pipe with Lukey Performance muffler

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 Post subject: Re: FORD EL hesitation during acceleration
Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2015 7:13 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Ride: el wagon

Location: melbourne
VIC, Australia

Sometimes things like worn cam lobes can cause such a thing, as can incorrect valve clearances. Have you done a vacuum check? i.e.: put a vacuum gauge onto the engine? Do it by putting a tee piece into the MAP vacuum line off the BBL. Taken your plugs out to see if any are black/wet, or the wrong colour?

You really can't adjust the dist properly without putting it into base timing mode. If you don't do that, you are simply guessing.
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 Post subject: Re: FORD EL hesitation during acceleration
Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2015 12:01 am 
Stock as a Rock
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Age: 26

Posts: 123

Joined: 21st Mar 2011

Ride: four wheels and an engine

Location: right over there...
VIC, Australia

update:

swapped the injectors, still done it. the car had au injectors on it, put the stock ef injectors back on from car 2.

about the ignition timing. I put the car in diagnostic mode, but i couldnt really get anything done simply cos i didn't have a timing light.

it was a bit of a hit and miss,,, but the car still hesitated no matter where I turned the dizzy. basically the problem was always there.. so i dont think the ignition timing would be able to solve the problem.


the only thing remains is fuel pump, ecu, maybe the distributor itself?

my plugs were new, but i checked and they are quite black even after just 1 month of driving. maybe its cos of the au injectors. therefore i put the el injectors on it, and ill grab myself a new set of spark plugs.

reminder: the car hesitates during sudden throttle opening, i.e sudden WOT. it doesnt do it on soft take off.

i dont have a vacuum gauge, i wish i had those tools.
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 Post subject: Re: FORD EL hesitation during acceleration
Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2015 11:20 am 
Getting Side Ways
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Posts: 973

Joined: 15th Nov 2004

Ride: el wagon

Location: melbourne
VIC, Australia

Quote:
i dont have a vacuum gauge, i wish i had those tools.


Gauge and "t" piece from Supercrap about $30. You can tell quite a bit from a vac. gauge if you know how to read it.

or here even:

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Car-Automoti ... 234268dbc1
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 Post subject: Re: FORD EL hesitation during acceleration
Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2015 4:16 am 
Stock as a Rock
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Age: 26

Posts: 123

Joined: 21st Mar 2011

Ride: four wheels and an engine

Location: right over there...
VIC, Australia

ok, tomorrow I am going to grab myself a vacuum gauge (also does the purpose of checking the fuel pressure too)

and im also grabbing an EA-EL scanner code tool from muzza hopefully.

Ill also grab a new set of spark plugs while im at it

that way I would be able to eliminate any electronic troubles? I hope

played around with the dizzy, advanced the timing a little, made the car run a little more harder but still did not fix the hesitation. so i reckon its NOT dizzy related. because no matter now much i played with the dizzy, it didnt have any effect on reducing the hesitation, let alone being able to eliminate it.

also, couldnt get my damn car into base timing mode. pinned the left top and bottom pins, started the car, the car didnt rev to 2000rpm, and didnt drop to almost hesitation after 1-2minutes either. hmm am i missing something?

okay, if you can explain to me how to exactly use and test the vacuum gauge, i would greatly appreciate it :) im gna give it a shot tomorrow, you mentioned plugging the T pipe into the MAP sensor hose from the bbm line?
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 Post subject: Re: FORD EL hesitation during acceleration
Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2015 11:35 am 
Getting Side Ways
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Posts: 973

Joined: 15th Nov 2004

Ride: el wagon

Location: melbourne
VIC, Australia

Quote:
also, couldnt get my damn car into base timing mode. pinned the left top and bottom pins, started the car, the car didnt rev to 2000rpm, and didnt drop to almost hesitation after 1-2minutes either. hmm am i missing something?


If that is the case, I would consider trying a different ECU. As far as getting another one, try a wreckers, probably $20 or so. Just make sure it is from an EL

Quote:
if you can explain to me how to exactly use and test the vacuum gauge, i would greatly appreciate it :) im gna give it a shot tomorrow, you mentioned plugging the T pipe into the MAP sensor hose from the bbm line?


Get a tee piece that suits the size of the tube on the vac gauge. If you can't het one from Supercrap, try somewhere like Autobarn, or Bursons, or even a plumbing supply place will probably have something.
cut a piece about 100mm long from the tube that comes with the gauge, or, if you don't want to do that, buy a length of vacuum hose to suit the gauge from Aotobarn or somewhere similar.

Disconnect the MAP hose from the BBL. and attach to one leg of the t piece. Attach the bought hose between the t piece and the BBL. attaché the gauge to the final "leg". Start the car and there you have it.
If you buy a gauge with the markings on it like the one on Ebay, you can tell what is going on.

This one is a good one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utUSI-JYhVU
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 Post subject: Re: FORD EL hesitation during acceleration
Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2015 4:13 am 
Stock as a Rock
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Age: 26

Posts: 123

Joined: 21st Mar 2011

Ride: four wheels and an engine

Location: right over there...
VIC, Australia

hi thanks for the info.

I went to supercheap today, they didnt have a vacuum gauge in stock (they always run out of stock for everything that i need lol) so ill buy one today in the afternoon. that way, I can check for vacuum leaks and a whole lot of other stuff. i watched the vids you showed me, man the vacuum gauge is such a handy tool! ill grab that and the timing light tomorrow, and grab an el ecu to (any auto i6 ecu will do right? does itmatter between falcon, xr, fairmont, ghia?)

in the mean time, i bout an OBD scanner tool from Muzza, (murray)... thanks Murray for all the helpful info for diagnostics, base timing, base idle, and setting the tps (gotta do that too)

I ran KOEO KOER tests, and I got some insteresting codes

code:172 engine always running lean..

GOTCHA !!

ok now what to do?? lol

will fixing the base timing fix that? what about base idle? lol what about setting correct tps voltage? omg my head is gna explode lol.

also found code 118 coolant temp sensor bla bla, code 12-something map sensor out of calibration. resetted the codes, didnt come back again (because i swapped the map sensor and coolant temp sensor already.) code 172 always came back though

note: i believe im receiving very weak spark. the ef i tested, when i pulled out the plug an held it near the spark plug, i saw a FAT STRONG BLUE spark forming. but, on my el, the spark was very THIN AND WEAK and SHORT. I already changed the plug leads, got brand new plug leads, dizzy cap and rotor button.

who reckons the dizzy is out of whack too? by the way, i read that weak spark can cause a misfire under load (Wide Open Throttle as my case) change ecu and dizzy yeah? lol there goes my friday afternoon haha
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 Post subject: Re: FORD EL hesitation during acceleration
Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2015 5:50 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Posts: 973

Joined: 15th Nov 2004

Ride: el wagon

Location: melbourne
VIC, Australia

Quote:
any auto i6 ecu will do right? does itmatter between falcon, xr, fairmont, ghia?)


Should be o.k., just make sure it is EL. Look up "catch codes" on the search for this site, and get the latest.

Quote:
but, on my el, the spark was very THIN AND WEAK and SHORT


Have you tried replacing the ignition module? I notice you ahve replaced the dist., I DO hope to have changed over the gear from the original dist., as, if not, you will destroy your auxiliary shaft soon, meaning a new engine!! The Chinese ones are CRAP!!!

Quote:
will fixing the base timing fix that? what about base idle


If these are wrong, the ECU will be confused. So, yes, this will have a bearing on the fuel sent to the cylinders.

Remember: there is more computing power in the ECU than what the Apollo spacecraft had during the first moon landing!!!!!!

Quote:
who reckons the dizzy is out of whack too


If you haven't used a timing light, and set it to learn mode, then yes, it probably is
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 Post subject: Re: FORD EL hesitation during acceleration
Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2015 5:57 am 
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Age: 26

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Joined: 21st Mar 2011

Ride: four wheels and an engine

Location: right over there...
VIC, Australia

hi creeture,

couldnt find a vacuum gauge today, will search for one and grab it tomorrow..

in the mean time, swapped over the ECU with another two more EL auto I6 ECU, still same problem. shudder/hesitation during takeoff on WOT.

currently, really I only have these options left

base ignition timing (will do with timing light)

base idle. how do i set it again?

check tps voltage. i bought a mutlimeter so how would i do it?

use vacuum gauge, connect to map hose.

change fuel pump.

maybe change cam/ignition coil and maybe check if car has thermostat? lol idk seems like im taking blank guesses...
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 Post subject: Re: FORD EL hesitation during acceleration
Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2015 9:35 am 
Stock as a Rock
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Age: 26

Posts: 123

Joined: 21st Mar 2011

Ride: four wheels and an engine

Location: right over there...
VIC, Australia

*** UPDATE ***

- bought a cheapy vacuum gauge (simple one) from supercheap, connected it between the map sensor and map line, and got a PERFECT 22 inHg. cant belive it.

- bought a timing light from supercheap, connected it up, set the base timing, aligned it nicely with the crank timing notch. tightened dizzy, then double checked it again.

- swapped over fuel pump too.

STILL DOES THE DAMN HESITATION !!!

so far changed : fuel pump, fuel filter, fuel pressure reg, injectors, ECU, MAP, OXY, throttle body, tps sensor, clean and swap ICV valve, PCV valve, plugs, leads, ignition coil, dizzy cap, rotor needle.
set the base timing and checked for vacuum.

whats left? change the actual dizzy? change the cam? (the car has been doing it before the au engine too)

cmon guys i need your input..please
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 Post subject: Re: FORD EL hesitation during acceleration
Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2015 5:17 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Posts: 973

Joined: 15th Nov 2004

Ride: el wagon

Location: melbourne
VIC, Australia

Quote:
set the base timing


But did you put it into "learn" mode?
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 Post subject: FORD EL hesitation during acceleration PLEASE HELP!!!
Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2015 5:59 pm 
Stock as a Rock
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Age: 26

Posts: 123

Joined: 21st Mar 2011

Ride: four wheels and an engine

Location: right over there...
VIC, Australia

yep i did. car still hesitates

im out of options completely...

i dont know what else to do...

??
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 Post subject: Re: FORD EL hesitation during acceleration PLEASE HELP!!!
Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2015 8:40 pm 
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Location: Waikato
New Zealand

Never mind - didn't see the part about you having changed the temp sensor already until I re-read it (it's been a long day).

That would have been my guess as to the culprit
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