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Gathering information - '87 Thunderbird 

 

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 Post subject: Gathering information - '87 Thunderbird
Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2015 6:57 am 
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Oustide Australia

Gonna try this again, here. Posted in Off Topic and managed to get things messed up... :oops:


A bit of background on myself and the car; I am a chassis fabricator building Sprints and Midgets, both pavement and dirt. I have had many project cars and the 87-8 Thunderbirds have always been a staple of my interests. My current car is an 87 Turbocoupe that has been 'completed' since 08. It is powered by a 2.3L Turbo putting down 280rwhp and 340rwtq. After a few successful SCCA Solo seasons, it is getting to be about time to go thru the car, refresh and update some things.

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I've got this notion in my head, and for the past week I have been scouring the 'net pulling as much info together as I can find. I have got a serious hard on for an inline six engine in my Tbird and had all but narrowed myself down to using the 4200 Atlas motor from a Trailblazer and adding some boost, but it hurts my insides to think of a Chevy motor in my Ford. After revisiting a few wicked YouTube videos of turbocharged Barra dyno pulls, I have concluded that there is no better option than to have an XR6T engine shipped halfway around the globe for my personal use!

As a fabber/welder, I have no issues getting the thing fitted in the bay. I have been working to determine what all parts I need to aquire in addition to the engine itself. Clearly, all the accessories, starter, wiring, PCM, and throttle pedal will need to come along. Also I have a very nice T5z trans(foxbody fitment) that I would like to use so much of my research thus far has been related to bellhousings. Sorting thru the different acronyms for the different generations of Falcon(EF, AU, BA, BF, FG) made my head spin at the start, but I think I am getting that sorted...I have learned that the T5 was used behind the BA which had me excited for a bolt together solution until I found that the BA bellhousing has the input shaft support integral like so
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Continuing to dig, I see that the EF and AU Falcons also used the T5 and that the AU bellhousing is likely the best candidate for my situation(EF left, AU right)
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One dimension I am very curious about is the register diameter for the bearing retainer in the AU bellhousing. The foxbody part uses a 4.91" OD retainer. While it is possible that I could machine the BA bellhousing to fit around the foxbody bearing retainer, if the AU bell is a better fit I will go that route. I could use either cable or hydraulic actuation as I have access to either pedal set for the Tbird. Do the 2 and 3-bolt starters interchange between AU and BA?

Getting to the nuts and bolts of fitting the foxbody T5 behind the Barra I have begun to find discrepancies for info related to input shaft length, spline count, and pilot shaft dimensions for the Falcon parts.
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Looking at this chart from the Dellow catalog, it shows the same 10sp input for both the foxbody and Falcon units, but I have read in a few places the Falcon uses a 26sp input shaft. Also the chart shows the foxbody part with a .590" pilot but they are actually .668" unless it is a 4cyl box...None of this is a deal breaker as I can sort this stuff out as I go, but if anyone could confirm the dimensions of the BA Falcon T5 input shaft it would certainly be useful for me.


I am all ears here, and any info you can provide will be helpful. Even info on locating/shipping parts, which motors to stay away from, whatever. I am trying to sort this stuff thru the internet while you guys are surrounded by the parts daily!
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 Post subject: Re: Gathering information - '87 Thunderbird
Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2015 12:42 pm 
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Quote "Just looking at pics I have noted that the factory pan is front sump. I have a tubular K-member which affords quite a bit extra room, but I suspect that fabricating a rear sump pan will be on my list of required mods to fit the XR6T neatly in my engine bay."

The BA/BF Barra has a front sump and the FG Barra has a rear sump. Both these are alloy. The Territory uses a larger sump which is steel.

Look at getting a front cut (engine, loom, ecu etc) and having that shipped over to the US. Someone like Macarthur Spares or Fern Tree Gully Spares would possibly be able to assist or even a member here might help you out.

Pics of BA/BF Sump in car.

Attachment:
BF 2006 F6 Sump Front.jpg
BF 2006 F6 Sump Front.jpg [ 92.53 KiB | Viewed 39 times ]

Attachment:
BF 2006 F6 Sump Right.jpg
BF 2006 F6 Sump Right.jpg [ 96.05 KiB | Viewed 31 times ]

Attachment:
BF 2006 F6 Sump Left.jpg
BF 2006 F6 Sump Left.jpg [ 88.61 KiB | Viewed 30 times ]

Attachment:
BA Sump side on.jpg
BA Sump side on.jpg [ 101.79 KiB | Viewed 41 times ]


I will see if I can get some FG sump pics as well.
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 Post subject: Re: Gathering information - '87 Thunderbird
Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2015 12:49 pm 
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SWC wrote:
... the FG Barra has a rear sump.
...
I will see if I can get some FG sump pics as well.

I was just reading this as well. I have not turned up a good pic yet, thanks for looking too.

A front cut is not a bad idea if it doesn't cause issues importing. I will look into this as well.
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 Post subject: Re: Gathering information - '87 Thunderbird
Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2015 3:06 pm 
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I would think that a front cut would be no different to an engine import as long as all the fluids are drained, needs to be done for the engine anyway. Get the brakes etc dropped off as this will save some weight as you won't need them anyway.

The advantage of the front cut is that you will be able to see where all the wiring goes as well as how the engine sits within the sub Frame.
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 Post subject: Re: Gathering information - '87 Thunderbird
Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2015 3:10 pm 
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Also with the BA bellhousing, it is set up for Hydralic Clutch where as the E series/AU are Cable clutch.

AU bellhousing will bolt straight up to the Barra block where as the E series will miss with 4 of the lower bolts.

Last edited by SWC on Mon Nov 09, 2015 3:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Gathering information - '87 Thunderbird
Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2015 3:22 pm 
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Age: 60

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Gallery: 8 images

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NSW, Australia

Images of the E series V the AU Bellhosing bolt patterns

AU Sandwich plate on an EF Bellhousing
Attachment:
AU Bell, EF Sandwich plate.jpg
AU Bell, EF Sandwich plate.jpg [ 170.97 KiB | Viewed 32 times ]


AU and E series Bellhousings side by side, AU on bottom
Attachment:
AU v E Series Bellhousing.jpg
AU v E Series Bellhousing.jpg [ 30.35 KiB | Viewed 31 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Gathering information - '87 Thunderbird
Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 6:17 am 
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FG Sump Pics

Attachment:
FG Sump.jpg
FG Sump.jpg [ 29.8 KiB | Viewed 37 times ]

Attachment:
FG Sump Bottom shot.jpg
FG Sump Bottom shot.jpg [ 26.99 KiB | Viewed 32 times ]

Attachment:
FG Sump inside shot.jpg
FG Sump inside shot.jpg [ 31.24 KiB | Viewed 27 times ]

Attachment:
FG Sump left side shot.jpg
FG Sump left side shot.jpg [ 25.43 KiB | Viewed 31 times ]

Attachment:
FG Sump right side shot.jpg
FG Sump right side shot.jpg [ 26.73 KiB | Viewed 35 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Gathering information - '87 Thunderbird
Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2015 2:29 pm 
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Oustide Australia

Thank you for the FG sump pics! Any chance of getting a measurement from the rear edge to say, the drain plug to get an idea how far forward the sump extends?
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 Post subject: Re: Gathering information - '87 Thunderbird
Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 6:59 am 
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ACT, Australia

Hello,

I hope your project is still going well. I have a BF, and the rocker cover front to back is 77cm This may help you guesstimate the position of the sump. If you can get a clear side Pic of an FG motor it will give you some idea of where the X member goes.

 

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