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having a problem with shims 

 

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 Post subject: having a problem with shims
Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 7:17 am 
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I got my cam re-ground about a year ago.. I was told I prolly didn't need shims. But as soon as I put it in I had noisy tappets. I just put up with it until I read about putting shims in the rockers.

Ordered a set of 1.9 shims from Ford, they gave me the wrong ones, smaller dia ones for a ED I think (mines EBII)

chucked them any anyway since I had the rockers off. They rattled like F***. They also pushed the rockers all hard up against the HLA's.. which I don't think you want?

So removed them and tried using some thinner SS washers.. they were better but still noisy.. and still made all the rockers pretty tight.

So I've ordered some 1.6 shims in the right size.. planning on trying that. However I don't know if I'm on the right track?

 

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Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 4:52 pm 
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The size of the shims if they are needed depends on what cam you spec you have. other thing is did you bleed each lifter, it will sound like s**t for the first few minutes, but once they have oiled themselves up should be good for a rev. use the point of a scribe or test lamp to push into the top of them to sqeeze the oil out then refit them back into the rockers, start without reving until they have quietened down
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Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 10:17 pm 
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hmmm no I didn't bleed them.. I'll try that next time.

Well, the grind is pretty small and Kelfords said that it probably wouldn't require shims. However it was noisy ever since I put it in and never got better.. so I thought I'd try it.

I've ordered the smallest shims I can get which is 1.6

I guess my question is whether its okay to have the rockers tight against the valves with the shims or better off with a gap? See if I'm not supposed to shim it I don't know why it's so ticky. :(

 

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Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 8:47 am 
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if its such a small grind then any shims will make it too tight. use the factory shims and bleed the lifters.
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Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 12:07 pm 
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I've run the car for a week with it probably too tight.. still ticks as well.. and for some reason doesn't idle well (don't think thats related)

um, would I have done any damange running it too tight? How much clearance should I have?

also, how does bleeding the lifters help? Do you put them back in with no oil in them??

 

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Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 12:59 pm 
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Hi There
I may be wrong - please correct if necessary, but.....
I believe that when any of the pistons are at TDC ( compression ),
then when you hold the roller side of the rocker onto the cam, there should be a very small gap
between the HLA and valve tip on both exhaust and inlet for that cylinder.
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Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 4:12 pm 
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yep, you put them back in empty, sounds s**t for a few minutes then it settles down, reason your not idling properly is most likely casue 1. cam isn't dialled, 2. most likely need to adjust your timing

use a vern gear and dial it in, then adjust the timing by adding a few degrees.

as for damage or clearance required, sorry i dont know
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Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 4:54 pm 
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yeah I didn't dial it in.. just removed cam.. put a small grind on it and put it back didn't touch nothing. However.. I also forgot to mention that it's dual fuel. It idles fine on petrol.. it's the lack of vacume under 1000rpm that causes the lpg to play up.

um sweet cheers for the advice, but what is the idea being putting the HLA's in empty? I'm trying to think of a reason how this would do anything?

 

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Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 5:15 pm 
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I am not 100% on the reason, however was told by Joe at CMS to do it, basically it removes the pressurised oil already in them and once fitted again they self lubricate themselves into position. it worked with mine after i had a few problems with my first cam prior to fitting Joes stage 2.
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Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 5:18 pm 
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I don't get that either, bleeding them down they are just going to pump up again.
If the HLAs are f**k they will bleed down after sitting for awhile anyway, hence you'll hear alot of 4Ls with ticky lifters on startup.

Have a read of RPDs doco on shimming lifters, it covers measuring clearance. http://www.fordmods.com/forums/documents.php?doc=80

Running them over or under shimmed shouldn't damage them, although drastically undershimmed and the lifters may fall out of rocker slightly when valve closes, and when it goes to open again the lifter can get caught sideways and break the rocker.
Overshimmed alot will prevent valves from sealing.

 

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