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Hybrid DOHC motor (DOHC head on SOHC block) 

 

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 Post subject: Hybrid DOHC motor (DOHC head on SOHC block)
Posted: Sun May 05, 2013 5:33 pm 
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As per the raised voices and throwing of arms into the air:

http://www.fordmods.com/ford-4l-and-6-cylinder-f1/ba-bf-head-on-a-ef-el-block-t121398.html?hilit=ba%20head%20ef%20block&start=75

I have collected 1X donated BA falcon engine (thanks Steve aka fezlane) and begun measuring and comparing differences/similarities (will hopefully be collecting the donated SOHC motor soon).

So far:
Timing arrangement - MAJOR differences on the side where the aux shaft lives, current plan is to retain aux shaft driven dizzy and oil pump
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Oil/coolant galleries and stud locations (E series headgasket on BA block) mostly good:
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(same gasket on BA head) BIG differences - head will need to be welded up and decked:
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close up of differences:
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And finally Plasticine standing in for the metal to be added:
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problems to overcome are:
adding of extra material to the head to seal on the SOHC block properly
the loss of two oil drainback holes (will enlarge remaining 4 to compensate)
TIMING - will require new guide on intake side of engine and most likely a modified timing cover. i suspect i can use the BA crank sprocket on the SOHC motor.
From what i remember of the internal differences BA rods/pistons will fit the SOHC block/crank



will do some more work once i get hold of the SOHC engine.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Hybrid DOHC motor (DOHC head on SOHC block)
Posted: Sun May 05, 2013 5:55 pm 
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if ya dont get the sohc .. give me a pm coz i have a EB block [no head] that ya can have [need ta pull it outa the body tho]
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 Post subject: Re: Hybrid DOHC motor (DOHC head on SOHC block)
Posted: Sun May 05, 2013 6:59 pm 
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No mucking about there you must have really got stuck into it.

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 Post subject: Re: Hybrid DOHC motor (DOHC head on SOHC block)
Posted: Sun May 05, 2013 8:34 pm 
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OK......so, what would be the benifit of fitting a DOHC head to a SOHC block ????.....just so I can be on the same page here.....thats all.....looks like a lot of stuffin around to get it working.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Hybrid DOHC motor (DOHC head on SOHC block)
Posted: Sun May 05, 2013 8:57 pm 
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Like fitting an alloy head cross flow head to an american 250, or an alloy 2v head to an old pre-cross flow. Benefits of newer technology.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Hybrid DOHC motor (DOHC head on SOHC block)
Posted: Sun May 05, 2013 8:59 pm 
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assuming the pistons and rods are fitted as well as the ECU, the benifits are all those of the DOHC (minus some bottom end strength and refinement) without having to resort to cutting crossmembers which is almost completely impossible to do legally in VIC.

I am however more or less doing it because i can and it seemed interesting.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Hybrid DOHC motor (DOHC head on SOHC block)
Posted: Sun May 05, 2013 9:31 pm 
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JOSE wrote:
assuming the pistons and rods are fitted as well as the ECU, the benifits are all those of the DOHC (minus some bottom end strength and refinement) without having to resort to cutting crossmembers which is almost completely impossible to do legally in VIC.

I am however more or less doing it because i can and it seemed interesting.


keep it up mate. this is the sort of thing that makes fordMODS.

actually doing something rather than talkin about crap.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Hybrid DOHC motor (DOHC head on SOHC block)
Posted: Sun May 05, 2013 9:47 pm 
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Definitely will be watching this thread!

 

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 Post subject: Re: Hybrid DOHC motor (DOHC head on SOHC block)
Posted: Tue May 07, 2013 2:01 pm 
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JOSE wrote:
assuming the pistons and rods are fitted as well as the ECU, the benifits are all those of the DOHC (minus some bottom end strength and refinement) without having to resort to cutting crossmembers which is almost completely impossible to do legally in VIC.

I am however more or less doing it because i can and it seemed interesting.


OK...so, the gist of it is to fit a DOHC head to a SOHC bottom end, so you don't have to modify an existing K frame in an E series.....yes?.......OK....carry on :D

 

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 Post subject: Re: Hybrid DOHC motor (DOHC head on SOHC block)
Posted: Tue May 07, 2013 3:48 pm 
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^^^^^Didn't we sort out all the 'Whys' in the previous thread ?? That's why this thread was set up.

Looks like the head matching is doable - do all the coolant drains match up too ??

The oil galleries shouldn't be too big an issue, since they're gravity drain. Maybe you could drill angled cross holes to join the other drains and seal those exposed holes at the gasket deck - if they're proud of the block sides, there's no big issue getting them gasket flat - if you understand what I'm meaning. I guess too it depends how much metal you have below the inlet ports to play with.

Was there any pics of the DOHC prototype showing the front with the timing cover off ?? - can't remember seeing any. They'd certainly come in handy.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Hybrid DOHC motor (DOHC head on SOHC block)
Posted: Tue May 07, 2013 3:58 pm 
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do I think its practical no...
but I thinks its interesting so here are some of those dohc hybrid pics, unfortunately none with timing case off...

 

 

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 Post subject: Re: Hybrid DOHC motor (DOHC head on SOHC block)
Posted: Tue May 07, 2013 5:52 pm 
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snap0964 wrote:
Looks like the head matching is doable - do all the coolant drains match up too ??

The oil galleries shouldn't be too big an issue, since they're gravity drain. Maybe you could drill angled cross holes to join the other drains and seal those exposed holes at the gasket deck - if they're proud of the block sides, there's no big issue getting them gasket flat - if you understand what I'm meaning. I guess too it depends how much metal you have below the inlet ports to play with.


Fortunately all the other feeds/drains line up - there is no way to join up the oil drains that dont match the block as the coolant galleries are in the way, so im just going to cross fingers and hope there are no issues (shouldnt be if i enlarge the remaining ones slightly and fill the two spots created where oil can pool on top of the head.

Thanks troyman, it looks like that prototype is running the exact chain setup i will be (single row with oil pump driven off aux shaft)

 

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 Post subject: Re: Hybrid DOHC motor (DOHC head on SOHC block)
Posted: Tue May 07, 2013 10:22 pm 
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JOSE wrote:
Thanks troyman, it looks like that prototype is running the exact chain setup i will be (single row with oil pump driven off aux shaft)
I think Troy's posted only what the previous links have in pics - and my understanding was the prototype was essentially the SOHC timing chain setup, maybe with different upper guides.
A pic showing that would've helped you big time.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Hybrid DOHC motor (DOHC head on SOHC block)
Posted: Tue May 07, 2013 11:11 pm 
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This is awesome as! I'm glad that some one is trying it =) I would of but with school and lack of tools and skills I wouldn't even be able to start it =) if it all works at the end (which I think it will) I would love to know how you did it all so I can attempt to do this to my car =D
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 Post subject: Re: Hybrid DOHC motor (DOHC head on SOHC block)
Posted: Wed May 08, 2013 9:05 pm 
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Ok, i had a bit of blind luck tonight - i was pondering how to run the aux drive:
longer chain and reworked guides or
secondary (short chain)

option 2 tickled my fancy as there would be less custom parts and stuffing around, then i remembered there was a really short chain in a box of transit 2.0 petrol parts i had - the little bugger looks to be the perfect length.

so this is going to be the path i will try first, i think a transit 2.3 secondary chain tensioner will also come in handy so im going to strip a transit 2.0 of unknown condition for its guides and chain and maybe buy a 2.3 tensioner.

 

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