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Miss fire under load 

 

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 Post subject: Re: Miss fire under load
Posted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 1:26 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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If the alternator business doesn't fix it, another thing to try is unplug the wiring from the Cam Phase Sensor (just make sure you lash the connector safely out of the way) and see if that helps.

The car WILL start and run fine - mine has been disconnected for close to a year now with NO bad effects and has FIXED an odd shudder and power loss that used to happen at random times when accelerating.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Miss fire under load
Posted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:43 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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Age: 38

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Joined: 30th May 2013

Ride: Ford EF Falcon 96

Location: Perth
WA, Australia

Have disconnected the cam angle sensor this evening and started fine without any problems, but unfortunately this did not remedy the miss in idle. Revs are still fluctuating, even under load.

Cheers for the tip, but will investigate the charging circuit and change the alternator by the weekend.

Will update this post with findings.
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 Post subject: Re: Miss fire under load
Posted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:53 pm 
Tyre Shredder
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Ride: 2001 au forte 6cyl

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Don't know if this will help but has anyone thought of the vacuum hose connected to the brake booster? But I guess the brakes would suffer symptoms tho right? I do know that it effects the idle and running of motor

 

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 Post subject: Re: Miss fire under load
Posted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:53 pm 
Tyre Shredder
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Age: 31

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Ride: 2001 au forte 6cyl

Location: gladstone
SA, Australia

Don't know if this will help but has anyone thought of the vacuum hose connected to the brake booster? But I guess the brakes would suffer symptoms tho right? I do know that it effects the idle and running of motor

 

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 Post subject: Re: Miss fire under load
Posted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 11:17 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Location: FNQ
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If you haven't done it already, the other thing to try is make sure you have good access to both of the big EFI loom connectors (near the windscreen wash bottle - may have to have the intake pipe off) and with the engine idling give them each a good wiggle and push and pull.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Miss fire under load
Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 4:03 am 
Parts Gopher
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Ride: ford ef2 xr6

Location: melbourne
VIC, Australia

From what you describe,the first thing i would check is the throttle position sensor as if this is faulty it can lead to erratic idle and lack of power/missfires during acceleration.You will need to check resistance with a multimeter(even a $10 cheapie will work),resistance between sensor wiring connector terminals should be 3000ohms with throttle closed and 500 ohms when throttle is fully open.Replace sensor if you do not get these readings.Also check that sensor mounting screws are tight,that electrical connector is tight, and that that there is no excessive play between sensor and throttle shaft.
If above sensor is found to be ok,get ecu scanned for codes,and if any codes are found,post on here and I will look up codes for you as i have both factory workshop manual and Gregorys manual here.
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 Post subject: Re: Miss fire under load
Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:06 pm 
Fordmods Newbie
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Age: 34

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Joined: 15th May 2012

Ride: ef falcon futura

Location: melbourne
VIC, Australia

I received my new alternator today. Ill put it in tomorrow. I have a bee throttle sensor and motor. Did nothing. New cam angle sensor. If my alternator don't work I was told the dizzy?
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 Post subject: Re: Miss fire under load
Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:30 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Ur 1st post says you already did the coilpack? - EF doesn't have a dizzy.

Main sensors that can cause all sorts of wierdness are O2, Throttle position, MAP, Crank Angle and Cam Phase.

I guess it's possible the Air Charge Temp sensor or even coolant temp sensor could cause strange things - tho I believe the Coolant sensor on the EF also feeds the guage (is different sensor on earlier models) so you should see it playing up via the guage.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Miss fire under load
Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 12:31 am 
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Ride: ef falcon futura

Location: melbourne
VIC, Australia

Brand new coilpack. R u sure there is no dizzy? What doesthe coilpack connect to? OOxygen sensor if I take it out it does nothing. Crank angle sensor new. What's the other ones. There are so many
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 Post subject: Re: Miss fire under load
Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 1:09 am 
Oompa Loompa
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Age: 38

Posts: 26

Joined: 30th May 2013

Ride: Ford EF Falcon 96

Location: Perth
WA, Australia

Ef doesnt have a dizzy, it has a cam angle phase sensor. It sits in the same place that the distributor would normally sit. You can see it from looking in through the top of you intake manifold (front of the engine) and should read NOT ADJUSTABLE.

I replaced my one for a working one, but no change in idle fluctuation. I also measured the TPS, for volts and resistance and checks out ok. I changed the MAP sensor for a new one, no change...brand new coilpack, no change..., new plugs, leads, etc etc.

The coolant temp sensor is operational and within spec, the air temp sensor in the manifold is ok.

Located ECU wiring loom, all intact and ok. No vacuum leaks and brake booster hose is intact with no leaks.

Still, the issue exists. Last on the list is the alternator and inspect charging system, which will be looked at on the weekend. Fuel system yet to be inspected, will investigate fuel pump operation soon.

NOT giving up on this problem, as when the solution is found it will most likely cover pretty much every aspect to suss out the crap idle problem!!!

Will keep this post updated.

Cheers for the suggestions everyone :)
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 Post subject: Re: Miss fire under load
Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 11:49 am 
Getting Side Ways
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Ride: EF XR6 Wagon, AU2 XR6 VCT

Power: 148 rwkw

Location: Auckland
New Zealand

Hey topsy99,

I'm intrigued by your problem and seriously feel for you. Enough to do your head in. Will take a stab at a couple possibles - maybe long-shots.

You mentioned early on that you are getting 750kms on a tank. That's excellent for an EF. But it might suggest that the engine is running lean and that what you are experiencing is lean misfire.

You mentioned that you removed the O2 sensor and it made no difference. Did you reset the ECU before trying it? The ECU stores Long-Term Fuel Trim based on the O2 sensor inputs. If the O2 sensor is stuffed and telling the ECU the engine is running rich, the ECU fuel trim could be seriously leaning out the fuel. Try unplugging the O2 sensor connector, resetting the ECU (unplug it for one minute) to clear the LTFT, then try it out again.

My EF was doing the same thing - trying to stall - but only for the first few seconds after startup. I am running a TI Performance J3 chip and have been tuning it using wideband O2 and logging. What I found out was that the AFR was going hyper lean for the first few seconds - off the scale, in fact (over 19:1 AFR). I richened it up, and the problem went away.

The other likely possibility is a vaccum leak. I know you have checked for vacuum leaks, but are you sure you have eliminated that possibility? I spent quite some time and money chasing a shonky idle problem last year - though nowhere near as bad as yours. I too checked for vacuum leaks - by sound (using a length of hose as a stethoscope) and by spray (spraying start spray on all the vacuum hoses and gasket joins), and found nothing. My Ford mechanic neighbour stuck his head over the fence and said it HAD to be a vacuum leak, by the way it was idling. He said that start spray is not flammable enough, grabbed a can of Brakleen, carefully sprayed it along every inch of the intake manifold gasket, and found it almost instantly. Turns out the gasket was hard and crumbly and leaking in at least two places. Replaced the gasket and problem solved. It would be worth taking a can of brake cleaner spray (the stuff that runs off and evaporates fast, leaving no residue), and spraying it carefully along all the gasket surfaces on the intake manifold, on the fuel injectors (for leaky o-rings), along every vacuum hose, and over any vacuum reservoirs (brake booster, BBM actuator, fuel pressure reg, heater tap, etc). When you hit a leak, your revs will rise. A spray in the general direction of a leak probably won't do it. It needs a concentrated spray along every inch so there is liquid on the surface for it to suck in.

I know these may be long shots, but we ARE grasping at straws here. So, worth a try.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Miss fire under load
Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 11:41 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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Age: 38

Posts: 26

Joined: 30th May 2013

Ride: Ford EF Falcon 96

Location: Perth
WA, Australia

Hey Topsy99,

Any updates regarding the alternator?, any noticable changes or has the problem been resolved?

Still no luck on my side, havent had time to investigate the problem further but will endeavour to resolve soon when time allows.
Although I did spray brake cleaner on EVERY hose under the bonnet including vac hoses to inside the cabin. No evidence of vacuum leaks found.

Back to the drawing board :(

good luck
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 Post subject: Re: Miss fire under load
Posted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 12:12 am 
Fordmods Newbie
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Age: 34

Posts: 19

Joined: 15th May 2012

Ride: ef falcon futura

Location: melbourne
VIC, Australia

Ok. Its not the alternator. Its still the same. It has to be a sensor somewhere. I am doing my head in for 5 years
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 Post subject: Re: Miss fire under load
Posted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 12:50 am 
Oompa Loompa
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Age: 38

Posts: 26

Joined: 30th May 2013

Ride: Ford EF Falcon 96

Location: Perth
WA, Australia

Darn it!! Dude, that sucks.
I'm thinking there's just a ghost in the machine now...
Let u know as soon as I find a solution as I'm persisting on this whats become a very difficult ongoing issue !!!
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 Post subject: Re: Miss fire under load
Posted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 9:11 am 
Fordmods Newbie
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Age: 34

Posts: 19

Joined: 15th May 2012

Ride: ef falcon futura

Location: melbourne
VIC, Australia

Its the same ghost that keeps stealing my socks from the washing machine. I have pretty much a new engine now. I don't get it.
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