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Oil additive engine restorers?? 

 

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 Post subject: Oil additive engine restorers??
Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 10:39 pm 
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Around 1980 or so I had a '67 Falcon which started blowing a fair amount of smoke and had no power. At the time there was an advert for some engine restorer as an Oil additive (with Werrit on Torque, I think), put this stuff into oil and as you drove it rebuilt and filled wear points to reseal rings for compression, stop scoring in the cylinder and touted you could drain the oil and drive for a hundred miles before refilling the sump.

I cannot remember the name of this stuff, but at the time I used it on the '67 and without trying to run it on an empty sump, found it worked. It completely stopped the oil smoke, and after about a hundred miles and overnight, the compression came back up. The only trouble was it's expense, not cheap by any standard.

Now, is there anybody who can tell me of any products like that, that is still/now available and where I might find it in SA?

BTW, tried to Google for it and had no hits (except for an engine oil purification system), might be my search parameters, not sure.

 

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Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 8:44 am 
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a few years ago i saw a product from redex that claimed it could restore compression,clean gummed up oil rings ect.
it was to be put in the spark plug holes and left overnight ...

hope that helps
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Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 12:43 pm 
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You could try Wynns Charge! Motor Oil Supplement. Here's the link:

http://www.wynns.net/industrial/oil-treatments

It's available from:

Midea Automotive Services Pty Ltd
7 Emanuel Court
Melrose Park SA 5039

Phone: 08 8277 4444
Fax: 08 8277 4878

 

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Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 2:08 pm 
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bardahl is a common one i got asked for comes in a can with ring pull old fashoned thing.

 

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Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 4:08 pm 
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I have found that if the rings are really worn and the motor needs love i use the lucas oil stabilizer.It is like honey and seals the rings up nicely in my eb 5.0 which has done 300000 plus km.
I tried all kinds of additives and engine honeys etc but the lucas stuff seems good.
All motors react differently to additives so maybe try a few and see which one works.

 

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Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 7:40 pm 
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Try Motorup

www.motorup.com

 

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Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 8:42 pm 
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youve got to be joking right?

how the hell is it going to restore piston to bore clearance, hone marks on the cyl walls, leaking valves, worn oil pump gears, stretched timing chain, bearings knocking...all these components are made of different materials, some such as the bearings have multi layer coatings...

not a hope in hell!!!

 

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Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 9:01 pm 
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gogetta wrote:
youve got to be joking right?

how the hell is it going to restore piston to bore clearance, hone marks on the cyl walls, leaking valves, worn oil pump gears, stretched timing chain, bearings knocking...all these components are made of different materials, some such as the bearings have multi layer coatings...

not a hope in hell!!!


I'm not trying to repair the engine, just prolong its life. These additives work at a chemical level by using sub-micron size particles that are rubbed into the surfaces of the cylinder then reacts with the pressure and heat to fill the scores and smaller differences in the ring land to create a better seal. (Over simplified explanation)

This is not designed to fix major problems like stretched timing chains, leaky head gaskets, damaged bearings, etc. It is however designed for systems where you are just seeing some smoke for the first time, or the beginnings of a rattle in the bowels of the engine, and want to get to it before it becomes a major problem, like those you quoted.

 

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Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 9:47 pm 
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Hey mate, my grandad has been using PROMA for 30++ years. It does as you say if not more.
It is a thick concentrate that you have to mix 100ml or so into 1ltr of oil.
You do an oil change, fill the car with clean oil without the last litre, then add the mix at the end. It will pick up the particles coating components and build up the walls to reduce scoring etc. It also has an anti friction agent which is what allows the engine to 'run without oil for thousands of kilometres'

We've tested the addative on a pressure wheel, and the wheel cannot be stopped even with 120+ft/lbs on it (The handle is bending when you apply over 120)

I put this into all cars that are pre 1995 that I work on, or anything that is worn badly..

For all new cars I use Microglide. Microglide won't rebuild the engine the same way PROMA will, buyt the antifriction side of it is better. It takes a little more to work it in, but once it does, it conditions the metal not to wear.

We broke the oil pickup off during a race, lap 2 of 10. We dropped back from 1st to 3rd after backing off due to the oil pressure light coming on. After 2 laps the car was still running perfectly, so the driver figured it was a wiring problem, and started pushing it again. By now the 2 cars infront had pulled away a fair bit, we reeled in 2nd, but only got back upto the bumper of 1st on the last lap.
At the end of the race we inspected the engine and it obviously had no oil in it, so we changed engines and finished the day.

When we got the engine home, we pulled it down and found it was a broken pickup. We expected the cylinders to be scored and the big end bearings to be burnt white and heavily scored.
When we pulled the big end bearings out they were perfect, exactly the same as when they'd been put in at the start of the season. Thanks PURELY to the Microglide
This proves that addatives DO work, despite alot of peoples opinions of the inability of additives to work.

That being said, Oil addatives are not all equal.

Many have been tested over the years and have failed. Nulon is one I steer clear of, any that have Teflon should definately be steered clear of.

I ONLY recommend PROMA MDL (for oil) or PT5 (for Petrol)
and Microglide (for oil) and Ultrafuel (for petrol)
Bitron addatives are good, but not in the same elite league as the above, nor is Bitron still produced..

I have heaps of brochures on the Microglide and Ultrafuel if anyone wants them, I know the guy that has the production licence for Australia.

PROMA is available through any good oldschool mechanic, my grandad can get it (and has a fair bit stockpiled for personal use) if anyone NEEDS any..

I could talk about this all day, but I think I've said enough..

I Hope this helps

Cheers,
MaTTe

 

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Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 10:33 pm 
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MaTTeB wrote:
Hey mate, my grandad has been using PROMA for 30++ years. It does as you say if not more.
It is a thick concentrate that you have to mix 100ml or so into 1ltr of oil.
You do an oil change, fill the car with clean oil without the last litre, then add the mix at the end. It will pick up the particles coating components and build up the walls to reduce scoring etc. It also has an anti friction agent which is what allows the engine to 'run without oil for thousands of kilometres'

"e've tested the addative on a pressure wheel, and the wheel cannot be stopped even with 120+ft/lbs on it (The handle is bending when you apply over 120)

I put this into all cars that are pre 1995 that I work on, or anything that is worn badly..

For all new cars I use Microglide. Microglide won't rebuild the engine the same way PROMA will, buyt the antifriction side of it is better. It takes a little more to work it in, but once it does, it conditions the metal not to wear.

We broke the oil pickup off during a race, lap 2 of 10. We dropped back from 1st to 3rd after backing off due to the oil pressure light coming on. After 2 laps the car was still running perfectly, so the driver figured it was a wiring problem, and started pushing it again. By now the 2 cars infront had pulled away a fair bit, we reeled in 2nd, but only got back upto the bumper of 1st on the last lap.
At the end of the race we inspected the engine and it obviously had no oil in it, so we changed engines and finished the day.

When we got the engine home, we pulled it down and found it was a broken pickup. We expected the cylinders to be scored and the big end bearings to be burnt white and heavily scored.
When we pulled the big end bearings out they were perfect, exactly the same as when they'd been put in at the start of the season. Thanks PURELY to the Microglide
This proves that addatives DO work, despite alot of peoples opinions of the inability of additives to work.

That being said, Oil addatives are not all equal.

Many have been tested over the years and have failed. Nulon is one I steer clear of, any that have Teflon should definately be steered clear of.

I ONLY recommend PROMA MDL (for oil) or PT5 (for Petrol)
and Microglide (for oil) and Ultrafuel (for petrol)
Bitron addatives are good, but not in the same elite league as the above, nor is Bitron still produced..

I have heaps of brochures on the Microglide and Ultrafuel if anyone wants them, I know the guy that has the production licence for Australia.

PROMA is available through any good oldschool mechanic, my grandad can get it (and has a fair bit stockpiled for personal use) if anyone NEEDS any..

I could talk about this all day, but I think I've said enough..

I Hope this helps

Cheers,
MaTTe


from the sounds of it, you wouldnt want to use this stuff in a newly reconditioned engine, else youd end up with no clearance ...

"It will pick up the particles coating components and build up the walls to reduce scoring etc." - this doesnt make sense, so it removes then builds...how does it add?

"We've tested the addative on a pressure wheel" - no idea what a "pressure wheel" is!!

" it conditions the metal not to wear." - huh?

 

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Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 1:16 pm 
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You obviously wouldnt use it on a new engine because its new,or recon.
:?

 

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Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 1:45 pm 
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these additives are nothing more than impregnators, same stuff that is in things like magnatec oil, just different forms, some are more concentrate than others.

 

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Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 5:46 pm 
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most additives just thicken the oil. i reckon a bottle of that lucas additive in 15 grade oil is equivilant to running 30 grade oil. in which does provide more of a seal hence why heavier oils take longer to get around an engine, it's not the weight it's the extra physical effort required to move the oil because of the seal it creates. lighter oils move quicker because they flow better and focus more on friction than sealing.
not sure bout the others but the lucas additive is 100% petroleum making it's use in synthetic oils a waste of time.
having said all that i still use it with semi synthetic penrite and after destroying an (worn) engine with magnatec. because i'm running an engine with 220,000k on it now. done 40,000k running the lucas/penrite mix n never missed a beat and doesn't get alot of respect if you know wat i mean.

and on the subject of teflon, it's got one of the lowest co-efficient of friction known to man so i can't see it being a bad thing. i also run a p.t.f.e (poly-tetra-floura-ethylene or something) which is a form of teflon, additive with manual gear oil in my worn out T5 and since using it have noticed little degradation to the box as oposed to the atf recommended by borg warner.

oils deffinately ain't oils but you have to consider the application.

 

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Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 1:20 am 
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Quote:
gogetta Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 7:33 pm Post subject:

from the sounds of it, you wouldnt want to use this stuff in a newly reconditioned engine, else youd end up with no clearance ...

"It will pick up the particles coating components and build up the walls to reduce scoring etc." - this doesnt make sense, so it removes then builds...how does it add?

"We've tested the addative on a pressure wheel" - no idea what a "pressure wheel" is!!

" it conditions the metal not to wear." - huh?


The proma isn't one you would need to use in a newly reconditioned engine, but there aren't the high concentration of metal wear particles throughout a recondiotioned engine like that of an older engine. As there are no score marks or metal particles the addative will just coat the metal components and reduce friction.
The Microglide is thinner than a 30 grade oil, so you add it to a brandnew or reconditioned engine, it will not reduce the clearances, but MAINTAIN them, rather than increasing them over time. We put microglide into every engine we build up for the race car, which is completely reconditioned or new parts.

It reduces the scoring by collecting the metal particles and compiling them into the parts of the engine that are not in contact with the moving parts with the pressure of movement

A pressure wheel can be made in many different ways, to put it basically ours uses a solid bearing driven by an electric motor, with a handle pivoting over it.. We bolt old lifters into the handle so the side of the lifter runs on the bearing.
With no oil at all the bearing will stop with 5ft/lbs or less.. basically a finger resting on the handle will stop it.
With any standard motor oil, 30-50 grade regardless of the quality of the oil the pressure wheel will stop at around 30ft/lbs.
Any gear oil 75-90 grade will stop at around 60ft/lbs

With all of these the lifter will have the circular face worn down to the shape of the bearing, you then rotate the lifter for the next oil and run sandpaper over the bearing to expose the surface again. And with all of these, the bearing will be stopped (obviously).. With all of these the metal on metal sound is brutal!

With the PROMA from the second you put a drop of the addative on the bearing, the noise is MUCH quieter, and you cannot stop the bearing. The harder you try the more you realise the quality of the product.
When you finally give up and look at the lifter, it is still perfect.

With the Microglide, because it is thinner than the PROMA it tends to run off the bearing, despite this the noise is far less brutal than standard oil, and even with the same amount of pressure on the handle as you had with PROMA you cannot stop the bearing. Within a few seconds the noise reduces even further as the addative becomes one with the surface.
Again, when you give up on trying to stop the bearing and look at the lifter, the surface is still perfect.

With both addatives you are putting well over 120ft/lbs of force onto the bearing and lifter.

It conditions the metal not to wear, to explain this it would take me far too long to bother with now, if you want the technical documentation on the addatiove, I'm more than happy to send it to you.


Quote:
green car Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 10:16 am Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You obviously wouldnt use it on a new engine because its new,or recon.


You can use these on both brand new and recon motors. I prefer the Microglide because it won't thicken the oil at all, the PROMA will thicken it slightly, not much tho.


Quote:
dc_todd Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 10:45 am Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

these additives are nothing more than impregnators, same stuff that is in things like magnatec oil, just different forms, some are more concentrate than others.


Similar, but better, magnatec is actually REALLY bad for your engine, it collects the metal particles magnetically and clogs the oil galleries. When i was doing engine reconditioning I was surprised at how many engines were destroyed purely because of magnatec. Oil starvation is not pretty..


Quote:
low_ryda Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 2:46 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

most additives just thicken the oil. i reckon a bottle of that lucas additive in 15 grade oil is equivilant to running 30 grade oil. in which does provide more of a seal hence why heavier oils take longer to get around an engine, it's not the weight it's the extra physical effort required to move the oil because of the seal it creates. lighter oils move quicker because they flow better and focus more on friction than sealing.
not sure bout the others but the lucas additive is 100% petroleum making it's use in synthetic oils a waste of time.
having said all that i still use it with semi synthetic penrite and after destroying an (worn) engine with magnatec. because i'm running an engine with 220,000k on it now. done 40,000k running the lucas/penrite mix n never missed a beat and doesn't get alot of respect if you know wat i mean.

and on the subject of teflon, it's got one of the lowest co-efficient of friction known to man so i can't see it being a bad thing. i also run a p.t.f.e (poly-tetra-floura-ethylene or something) which is a form of teflon, additive with manual gear oil in my worn out T5 and since using it have noticed little degradation to the box as oposed to the atf recommended by borg warner.

oils deffinately ain't oils but you have to consider the application.


Lucas oil will thicken your oil, i dunno about a full 15 grade, maybe 10 but regardless it will. The thing about lucas is that it makes the oil adhere to itself to help lubricate the upper cylinders so that in older engines with poor oiling systems you still have some protection rather than it getting half way up and dripping down..
Thicker oils are intended to cater for different clearances. Older engines tended to have much wider clearances than new engines.. Thicker oils do take longer to work around an engine as a general rule, but the chemical makeup plays a big part also, you can get 50 grade oils that'll work into your engine faster than some 30 grade oils..

As you said, lucas is better suited to mineral oils likely to be used in older engines (more due to clearances than wear)
Microglide is fully synthetic, PROMA is mainly Hydrocarbons.

With the teflon, in a Gearbox or diff it's not so bad, but in an engine, it coats the cylinders and bonds to itself, it has an excellent friction co efficient, but there'll only be so long that it'll work as intended before the piston grips the teflon and moves the sleeve up the cylinder hitting the head, rippling the sleeve and siezing the engine. MANY teflon addative companies have gone out of business for this reason alone.

For a damaged gearbox, or open centre diff I'd use PROMA,
For a new gearbox, or open centre diff I use Microglide.

My BA had microglide in the power steering, engine, manual, and diff. As an open centre diff it would do 2 wheel burnouts no worries.

YOU CANNOT PUT MICROGLIDE OR PROMA INTO LSDs OR AUTO TRANSMISSIONS
LSDs and Autos require friction to operate, these addatives remove friction making a LSD equal to an open centre, or an auto a single speed box. (Microglide does make an addative for the Auto with a small amount of the oil addative and other chemicals to benfit the Autos specifically)


I dont expect you all to understand on face value, because it sounds like whitemans magic.

I should really film all of this on the pressure wheel so you can all understand.. oneday.. One day I'll put a car up on a dyno, then put addative in to prove the difference..

I hope this has cleared some things up for atleast some of the disbelievers amongst you..

Happy Motoring

 

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Posted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 6:47 pm 
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only thing i could say is all be it not gemetrically equal but wear still equals clearance.

i hear you bout the teflon othrerwise the shelves of automarts would be packed full of oils with teflon additives.

it doesn't sound like white magic it just sounds like your a sales rep :P not that i'm skeptical. i actually intend to investigate this proma more.

good friction related post with some good information

 

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