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Poor running after cold start getting worse, need advice. 

 

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 Post subject: Poor running after cold start getting worse, need advice.
Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 1:44 pm 
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Okay, so I made a thread about it a while ago, but it basically goes like this.

I'll go to start the car in the morning, cold start. I'll then drive off from a stand still, and it will just really really struggle to accelerate for a while, then all the power comes in a heap (if I keep pushing the accelerator down).

I have recently replaced the fuel filter, had no effect. I put some injector cleaner in a month or so back, no effect.

I am pretty confident it is not the transmission, it was serviced not long ago, and shifts very well in all gears. It feels, to me, like the engine is initially starved of petrol.

What is my next best course of action? Something I should replace? Or just throw in the towel and get a mechanic to diagnose the problem?

Thanks in advance.

 

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Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 1:47 pm 
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You might need to replace the globe in the boot.

 

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Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 1:49 pm 
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Lol, mildly funny, but I do need genuine help folks.

 

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Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 1:49 pm 
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Lol, didnt see that coming Slick!!

Till, might even be too much fuel and choking the engine.

Done an ECU diag? Lol, i prob asked you that last time.

 

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Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 1:51 pm 
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Nope, haven't done an ECU diag. You need some electrical device for that don't you?

 

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Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 2:10 pm 
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Do LEDs and an alligator clips count as an electrical devices? lol

Check out the Fordmods doco on ECU diagnostics. A bit fiddly, there's a bit of an art to it... but its easy once you suss it out.

 

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Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 2:24 pm 
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Yeah, I've always known about the document and diagnosis, lol. Just seemed a bit beyond me, but I'll check it out.

 

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Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 6:06 pm 
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i had a similar problem, but it was only for about 3-4 seconds after start up...

I ended up changing the map sensor with another, fixed problem, mabey you could try the same??

 

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Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 6:08 pm 
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i know how to do the diagnostics....nfi how to read them tho....

 

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Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 6:10 pm 
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Till_Lind wrote:
Yeah, I've always known about the document and diagnosis, lol. Just seemed a bit beyond me, but I'll check it out.


If I was able to do it on my EA, then you'll definately be able too. The codes told me it had a faulty MAP sensor which would definately cause fuel problems, see what it spits out for you. Also, check your throttle cable for kinks or wear and operate the throttle body from under the bonnet to make sure its opening and closing smoothly.

 

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Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 6:53 pm 
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I have the same problem with my EF as you do - and I mentioned it last time you did :P

My amizing advice is take it to a mechanic, pay lots of $$$$, get him to fix it - then tell me what he did :P

I've had no luck finding the problem either - but one clue is that it doesn't do it on LPG! So you can rule out stuff like timing, coil etc.

Like yours, its very much temperature related, but you could also look at it as being time related - if the engine is let sit for ages, it gets cold, and perhaps the fuel pressure regulator slowly releases the stored fuel pressure? Not likely unless your fuel pump struggles as well, because that wuold prime up again almost instantly after starting, and you don't have a problem idling do you?

I am still leaning towards the intake air temp sensor, as I replaced the coolant temp sensor just recently to try and fix this - its still the same.

TPS - not likely as you would more than likely see the problem all the time.

MAP sensor - possible, but i don't think likely. (Do a "goose" test in diagnostic mode and see what pops up)

Maybe snap0964 can advise on my next suggestion: The ECU has routines for all running temps. Cold start, warm up, warmed up, WOT etc. I was thinking of doing the following as a test procedure only. Maybe you could unplug the Coolant temp sensor, replace it with a resistor of a value that tells the ECU that its going to be a cold start, then drive the car for a bit.

If you see that the problem seems to remain for as long as you have the resistor plugged in, it might indicate that the problem is to do with the fuel metering in the "cold start" routine.

If, on the other hand, the problem is there, and disappears after the normal warm up time, you might be looking towards another component that is faulty when cold, and seems to come good once it reaches operating temp.

What I might do when I have some free time next, is do this in the opposite manner - I'll work out what the coolant temp sensor resistance should be at normal operating temp, and i'll put in a temporary resistor and start the engine from cold. My guess is the engine won't hesitate at all, if its a learned cold start routine that is faulty. When I say faulty, I don't mean the ECU, just the data that the ECU may have been learning and accepting as gospel every time its cold. I don't even know if the ECU learns when its cold - thats something someone else on here may be able to help out with.

I'll try this with the Temp sensor, then the Intake air temp sensor, and go from there. I'm as stumped as you are, but it can't bee too serious, as my LPG runs 100%

 

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Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 9:58 pm 
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EBGizmo wrote:
Maybe snap0964 can advise on my next suggestion: The ECU has routines for all running temps. Cold start, warm up, warmed up, WOT etc. I was thinking of doing the following as a test procedure only. Maybe you could unplug the Coolant temp sensor, replace it with a resistor of a value that tells the ECU that its going to be a cold start, then drive the car for a bit.

If you see that the problem seems to remain for as long as you have the resistor plugged in, it might indicate that the problem is to do with the fuel metering in the "cold start" routine.

If, on the other hand, the problem is there, and disappears after the normal warm up time, you might be looking towards another component that is faulty when cold, and seems to come good once it reaches operating temp.

What I might do when I have some free time next, is do this in the opposite manner - I'll work out what the coolant temp sensor resistance should be at normal operating temp, and i'll put in a temporary resistor and start the engine from cold. My guess is the engine won't hesitate at all, if its a learned cold start routine that is faulty. When I say faulty, I don't mean the ECU, just the data that the ECU may have been learning and accepting as gospel every time its cold. I don't even know if the ECU learns when its cold - thats something someone else on here may be able to help out with.

I'll try this with the Temp sensor, then the Intake air temp sensor, and go from there. I'm as stumped as you are, but it can't bee too serious, as my LPG runs 100%
Funnily I started to read this thread and thought about resistor substitution.
I'd pull any diagnostic codes, and if they're not any, remove power to the ECU, run it for a few days, and let it relearn, and see if there's any improvement.

 

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 Post subject: poor start
Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 10:43 pm 
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i had the same problem i changed the plugs and leads and it did nothing
it turned out to be the throttle body full of carbon interfering with the sensors. mine would stall three times as well, cost me $50 from my auto elec to pull the throttle body off and clean it with some spray.... alls good now
hope this helps
fairlane95
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 Post subject: poor start
Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 10:44 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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i had the same problem i changed the plugs and leads and it did nothing
it turned out to be the throttle body full of carbon interfering with the sensors. mine would stall three times as well, cost me $50 from my auto elec to pull the throttle body off and clean it with some spray.... alls good now
hope this helps
fairlane95
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 Post subject: poor start
Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 10:45 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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Joined: 8th May 2006

Ride: fairlane

Location: altona
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i had the same problem i changed the plugs and leads and it did nothing
it turned out to be the throttle body full of carbon interfering with the sensors. mine would stall three times as well, cost me $50 from my auto elec to pull the throttle body off and clean it with some spray.... alls good now
hope this helps
fairlane95
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