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Regraphed Dizzy's into EA-AU motors? 

 

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 Post subject: Regraphed Dizzy's into EA-AU motors?
Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 1:59 pm 
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Hey guys,

I just found out that Dellow make a conversion kit to fit EA motors into patrols/Mavericks. EA engine = EA-BA motor in my eyes :)

The engine in mine is getting noisy and it is severly underpowered and I would like to have a falcon motor in there. For the price of second hand Nissan engine ancillaries it seems worthwhile to convert it. $250 for a power steering pump, $250 for a starter motor etc etc.

Im trying to think of the best way to go, it will either be straight LPG or dual fuel if I go through with it.

I know aaron has used an XD or XE? dizzy in an EF motor that was regraphed to suit straight gas. This sounds like a cheap option but I have no idea how it is done. I cant access the other forums to read Aaron's posts on this.

Would this type of ignition system be okay to run a low boost turbo setup or would it struggle? The maverick needs overtaking power.
What does converting a dizzy to suit the later model engines cost?
What is involved in making it work?

Would this dizzy conversion work on all EA-AU engines?

Using a converted Dizzy and straight gas would make most of the wiring redundant wouldnt it? This would make things simple.

I will likely use an EA-ED motor as I want a clutch fan. Mud and water cant be good for thermofans.

Thanks guys,
Dan
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Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 2:23 pm 
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could you post up any details you have about this conversion as i have a good mate that just blew up his motor in his patrol and wants a cheap upgrade.

if you dont want to clog this thread pm me please

 

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Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 2:26 pm 
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I dont have any details yet. Just that dellow make a conversion kit. Im not sure what is included or if it will work out to be a cheap option yet.

www.dellowauto.com.au
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Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 2:34 pm 
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sounds good, but i like my diesel 4.2 in my maverick

 

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Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 2:36 pm 
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Why even bother adding that?
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Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 3:04 pm 
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Yes you can use older dizzy's in EA-AU blocks, but you might also like to think about connecting an ignition only computer up to the TFI module. That way you can play with the ignition curves all you like (will probably nopt be expensive since you wont have to pay anyone to tune it).

As far as 4wd engine conversions go - check out http://www.marks4wd.com/

I got a kit from them to fit a 250 xflow into my FJ-40. Good kit and good guys.

 

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Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 3:14 pm 
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Nah if I was going to run an ECU I would just fit a 2nd hand wolf or microtech and run coilpacks so I could hide them where they wont get wet. An aftermarket ECU would suit dual fuel better as well but it would add a lot of extra cost and I want to finish my EA!!

The conversion kit is $950 from dellow which includes a bellhousing, spigot bearing, engine mounts and a few other things.
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Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 12:23 pm 
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dude why didn't you just ring me to ask?

Here's my take on it:
Don't bother trying to butcher an XE-F reluctor type dizzy to fit. Its more headached than its worth. It can be done but needs to be done properly. Really you need to kill 3 dizzys to make one and its a whole day on a lathe to do it. The short version is that the gear is upside down, the dizzy body is poorly supported when you have to clearance it for the aux shaft. This causes the shaft to be unsupported and it will phase around causing teh rotor to clip the stator. Also the stock height can be a problem under a broad band manifold. not good.

Best way is to grab an EA CPI dizzy and the full XF EST system including map sensor, water temp etc. Swap the plug for the TFI module. You now have a stand alone ignition ecu that seems to be perfectly suited to lpg.

*FWIW i just went for a ride in the car to which i installed my old engine and i'm blown away by how hard it goes. I simply forgot just how much torque that thing had. It pulled 107rwkw as i had it set up with the EST and on straight gas and it now has a crow gas cam and extractors and is apparently going even better.

 

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Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 1:40 pm 
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If I rang I would have forgotten what you told me in 3 seconds :cry:

Im pretty sure you did a write up on this in your conversion thread on PF didnt you? I forgot to check last night on the home computer.

Ive got no idea what an EST system is. Is it out of the EFI XF's? So I would need the computer, MAF sensor, and everything wouldnt I?

I wonder if I still have my XF manual at home.
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Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 2:23 pm 
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Just in case you didnt see it - from the sticky at the top of the workshop regarding old dizzy's in SOHC blocks:
Quote:
just using a xe electronic dissy .... the dissy mod is removing the gear off the bottom or the dissy and putting it back on upside down then drilling a new hole for the holding pin in the gear.


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I personally would still go for something like a megasquirt (old kits that will do TFI igntion can be had for $200 delivered) but fair enough if you dont want to go that way.

BTW: my XF 250 to FJ40 kit was $500. Had the bellhousing adaptor, flywheel spacer, spigot, all bolts, basically everything but the engine mounts.

 

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Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 2:32 pm 
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EST = Bosch Electronic Spark Timing
This ecu is found in later model carbied XF's from around '87. They are on the 3.3 and 4.1 models with the ecu's labelled according to engine size. I have swapped from one to the otehr back to back and couldn't notice any difference.

The EST carby dizzy is different to the EFI model afaik. Similarly the EFI models use a signature Pip signal (one narrow tooth) from the hall effect sensor in the dizzy. The EST and the CPI dizzys have evenly spaced teeth. The xf EST dizzy has a black plug which fits in place of the TFI module.

The only senders etc are TPS* MAP and Water TEMP. Then the connections are obviously battery + and -, the coil, the dizzy, the purge cannister, a/c. The EST loom comes out as a stand alone loom, no chopping required.

*The TPS in the est system is simply an on/off switch that is earthed to ground when closed not like the variable +5v on the EFI model. I let mine disconnected and it never went into fault mode**.

**Fault mode occurs when the ecu detects high engine temp or a faulty sender. It will lock timing at 10 degrees for limp home mode.

I think the PF thread on my XE was lost when they changed servers or were hacked or something. Same deal it was all on xfalcon but then that went down too.

 

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Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 2:43 pm 
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Awesome. Thanks for that Aaron. Ill go check out the wreckers on the weekend and see if I can come up with something. It sounds pretty simple. Did you get the dizzy recurved or just leave it as it is?

Stockstandard - I didnt read the sticky this time, sorry about that.

I actually started thinking about using a megasquirt about 10 minutes ago. I completely forgot that was an option. I noticed you converted your car back to a dizzy setup, any reason why you didnt run the coils?

I wouldnt mind having a go at building one, I dont know how I will go for time to make it though. I am back to uni this week and still work full time. :(

Where did you buy yours from?

Cheers,
Dan
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Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 2:58 pm 
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Dansedgli wrote:
Stockstandard - I didnt read the sticky this time, sorry about that.

I actually started thinking about using a megasquirt about 10 minutes ago. I completely forgot that was an option. I noticed you converted your car back to a dizzy setup, any reason why you didnt run the coils?

I wouldnt mind having a go at building one, I dont know how I will go for time to make it though. I am back to uni this week and still work full time. :(

Where did you buy yours from?


I picked dizzy just because it seemed like the path that would have the least problems. When I started my install I couldnt find anyone on the forums who had successfully got one working, so I was very cautious. I knew that they worked with the mustange TFI setup and all indications were that the I6 TFI setup was very similar if not identical. Even if that didnt work, I could use the TFI for the PIP and then get the MS2 to control the coil directly. Turned out the TFI worked fine.

Getting coilpacks to work does seem all that hard, except you need an EDIS 6 module which are hard to find in australia. I got a quote to have one shipped from the US for $60AUD. I know john (EFFalcon) got a couple sent over for his megajolt setup (Megajolt = cheap ignition only computer computer made to work with the EDIS coilpack setup).

For an easy/cheap setup you could just get a MS1 and run MSnS code. The MS1 V2.2 boards are much simpler to make and cheaper to buy than the MS2 but have pretty much the same functionality (not are no longer being developed).

2 places to buy them online from are http://www.glensgarage.com/catalog/index.php and http://www.diyautotune.com/

 

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Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 3:06 pm 
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can't recurve it dude. its just a static hall effect chopper wheel, no advance mechanism or weights to even play with.

The ecu seems to rely on MAP sensing and water temp to determine timing on a fixed curve, by delaying spark dwell time. Although as i said it seemed to suit LPG perfectly with tons of poke and no signs of detonation. I never even put a timing light on it!

Btw these bits from a wrecker would want to be cheap. I'll ask around to see if anyone is wrecking a s**t xf nearby. The hardest part in removing them is pulling the dash out to get at the loom. crow bar works a treat at that!

 

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Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 4:26 pm 
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Thanks guys, Ill suss out both options.

Megasquirt would be good but Im not sure I have the skills to get it up and running. The other option sounds like a piece of cake, I could always do the EST thing first then do the megasquirt later on when I want to run petrol as well.

Dellow sent out his catalogue with more details on the conversion this morning so we'll see what is involved before I go any further. I wonder if the megasquirt can get the BA motor running without the cam control and with coil packs in the meantime while I wait for the new autronic to be released. It would be a good practise run.
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